It’s game on when Wendy and Amy tackle The Hating Game. / Sally Thorne’s MC Lucy has Josh’s heart all aflame. / As these workplace enemies compete for a COO promotion, / Pop a cork to love and hate, Josh and Lucy are full of emotion.
Show Notes:
Next Episode: Haruki Murakami's short story "On Seeing the 100% Perfect Girl One Beautiful April Morning" paired with Albino Armani Prosecco Rose.
Please FOLLOW, RATE, and REVIEW us on APPLE or SPOTIFY PODCAST.
It’s game on when Wendy and Amy tackle The Hating Game. / Sally Thorne’s MC Lucy has Josh’s heart all aflame. / As these workplace enemies compete for a COO promotion, / Pop a cork to love and hate, Josh and Lucy are full of emotion.
Show Notes:
Next Episode: Haruki Murakami's short story "On Seeing the 100% Perfect Girl One Beautiful April Morning" paired with Albino Armani Prosecco Rose.
Please FOLLOW, RATE, and REVIEW us on APPLE or SPOTIFY PODCAST.
Prosecco N Prose | Season 4 | Episode 34 | The Hating Game by Sally Thorne.
Please consider leaving us a rating and review on APPLE or SPOTIFY Podcasts. This helps further our reach.
Co-hosts: Wendy and Amy
Wendy (W): Welcome to Prosecco and Prose Episode 34.
Amy (A): This week’s prosecco is Fascino Prosecco Rosé.
W: This week’s prose is The Hating Game by Sally Thorne.
* * * INTRO * * *
A: We’ve left the classics this week and are discussing a contemporary romance.
W: Yes, we are. And one we had pretty differing opinions on.
A: We did, but we’ll get to that. Let’s talk about this week’s prosecco, this Fascino Prosecco Rosé. See what opinions we have on this.
W: Let’s. The first thing that stands out to me is that this one is a much deeper orange than the other rosés we’ve had so far.
A: It really is. It kind of matches our rosé earrings from StyleASAP in Enterprise, AL. Little shout-out to Patsy and Stephanie co-owners of StyleASAP. https://shopstyleasap.com/
W: Yeah! It does! And if anyone feels so inclined to give us a shout-out in the way of a rating and review —
A: — which you can do on Apple and now on Spotify.
W: Yes! We’d love it.
A: We’d really appreciate it, so thanks in advance. Back to this prosecco …. Definitely can see the orange. It’s like … what’s dark orange? I’m drawing a blank here.
W: I was thinking of a blood orange.
A: Yes! Maybe it was mixed wth blood orange instead of Pinot Noir grapes.
W: Maybe.
A: Or maybe it’s a result of being made with organic grapes. I love that it’s organic.
W: Me, too, and that’s a very real possibility. What else did you glean from the label?
A: It’s a DOC, Extra Dry, 11%, and we picked this one up at the Italian Store here in town — love that place — … me, too… Priced moderately at $14.99.
W: I know we like under $10 bargains, but that’s not a bad price.
A: No, and it’s rated a 3.9 on Vivino.
W: Okay. Now this bottle has a lot of writing on it.
A: Yes, it does. We’ve already said it’s made from organic grapes, but I’ll read the rest. “The first written documentation around the origin of Prosecco dates back to 1772 when a scholar referenced the wine in the 8th volume of the ‘Giornale d’Italia’. Today it is produced using the Glera grape.”
W: A little history lesson. I like it. I don’t think we’ve ever gone into the origins of prosecco.
A: I don’t think so either and there’s more. “Fascino is Italian for Charm, which is the character you will find in this delicious wine made with organic grapes.”
W: Maybe I better drink this one, you don’t need any more character.
A: Very funny. Maybe you should so you can get more character.
W: I deserved that.
A: Just kidding…Anyway, last bit from the label … “Prosecco DOC Rosé is refreshing and elegant, versatile and with a moderate level of alcohol; ideal from aperitif to dessert.”
W: You know, every bottle this season has said it pairs with everything.
A: Why limit themselves? Or us?
W: Good point. We do kind of feel like prosecco goes with everything already.
A: Exactly. We’re ahead of the game before it was even a game.
W: Or we just really like prosecco.
A: Or that. Now this one had a lot of perlage on the pour. It was very dense and dissipated a bit slower than past prosecco’s we’ve had.
W: Yeah, but for all the bubbles on the pour, there’s barely any in my glass now. I’ve only got one little stream.
A: I agree, the bubbles are tiny and very sparse. You can almost count them. I’ve got just a few bubbles here and there.
W: Well, my one stream is now gone and I have no bubbles. Well, except for one or two bigger ones shooting up.
A: Every once in a while, it’s like a shooting star from the bottom.
W: I don’t think we’ve ever seen the bubbles disappear so quick.
A: Not that I can remember. I’m getting a distinct citrus smell, but I can’t tell exactly what yet.
W: I’m getting some citrus as well as a hint of strawberry. It’s kind of interesting, because I keep thinking I should smell orange with this darker orange color.
A: Well, there’s no orange on the taste. There’s an initial bite …. A tartness to it that just grabs you in the beginning. Like sweet tarts. And you know how much I love my sweet tarts.
W: Indeed, I do. And you’re right, it’s tart. Kind of like a tart strawberry for me.
A: You know, for little to no bubbles in the glass, it’s really quite fizzy in the mouth.
W: It’s definitely fizzy in the mouth. So maybe it feels tart more than it actually is tart?
A: It might add to it, but I think it’s tart. I’m getting a granny smith, green apple tart flavor.
W: You are? I’m not getting any of that.
A: I’m just so happy because I just love the green apple in prosecco and I’ve been missing it this season. You know green apple is my favorite.
W: I know! So, you’ve got green apple and sweet tarts and since we’re talking candy notes, I’ve got strawberry jolly rancher.
A: Okay ….
W: And there’s something sticky about it that makes you thirsty.
A: That’s just prosecco in general for us.
W: That might be true. It’s really good, though. I like this one.
A: So, do I. It’s really good and may it be so to the last drop.
W: I’ll drink to that! Now to Ms. Sally Thorne. She’s an Australian author—
A: — bestselling author. https://www.sallythorneauthor.com/
W: Yes. The Hating Game was her debut novel, it came out in 2016, and she did a short video on her website of how she came up with the idea.
A: I absolutely loved this book and the whole set-up. How did she come up with it?
W: She offered to write a short story for her friend for her birthday, but she needed a word to spark her imagination. She asked her friend and she said nemesis and it just came from there. She said she could picture Lucy and Joshua sitting at opposite desks.
A: I just love the word nemesis…plural is nemeses…rolls off my tongue in such a sinister way.
W: That’s my drama queen…but Ms. Thorne said she wrote it in six weeks, working after hours and for her birthday, her friend got a first draft of a novel.
A: That’s actually pretty amazing.
W: I thought so. Anyway, a few of her other friends read it and told her it was really good, so with their encouragement, she sent out her book and got a deal a week later.
A: OMG! Seriously? A week?
W: Yeah. She was pretty shocked as well. But those publishers knew. It was named in the top 20 romance novels of 2016 by the Washington Post and cited as a book that reinvigorated the romantic comedy genre.
A: Speaking of that, Fated Mates — A Romance Novel Podcast hosted by critic Jen Prokop and author Sarah MacLean discussed The Hating Game and they talked a good deal about this. They do a weekly podcast on romance novels that, as their description says and I quote, “includes romance novel read-alongs and discuss the work of the genre, highlighting the romance novel as a powerful tool in fighting patriarchy…with absolutely no kink shaming.” https://fatedmates.net/episodes/2020/12/1/s0317-the-hating-game-by-sally-thorne
W: Even though I didn’t agree with a lot of their discussion, because, I’ll say this right up front, I wasn’t a huge fan of this book, I really enjoyed their discussion.
A: Well, they really liked the characters, and the characters weren’t exactly your cup of tea.
W: No, but we can get into that later. Anyway, Jen and Sarah also talked a lot about the cover changing the genre and I found that really interesting.
A: I really liked their discussion on the characters and how the dialogue in this story was so important because it’s the only way to learn about Josh. The story is told in first person present, from Lucy, it’s observational and we really only learn about Josh through Lucy’s eyes and the dialogue.
W: Right. Really good discussion, so if you liked the book, I’d definitely check out Fated Mates: The Hating Game episode.
A: Back to Sally Thorne, The Hating Game was made into a movie that was released in 2021. So good. I definitely recommend it. She’s also written two other books, 99 Percent Mine in 2019, and Second First Impressions in 2021.
W: And she’s working on book four. On her website she says she gets asked a lot if she’s writing a sequel to The Hating Game and she is not, but she did include the original, unpublished epilogue in the back of 99 Percent Mine.
A: Oooh! I’m curious.
W: Oh me, too. And to go back to the word nemesis, that sparked this story, I love how all of her books start with a word and definition in the synopsis. 99 Percent Mine is crush and Second First Impressions is dazzle. Quick summary?
A: That’s so fun. Sure. Joshua and Lucy are executive assistants to the co-CEOs of a publishing house. They are forced to work together after their two publishing companies merge and they hate each other. At least that’s what Lucy tells us since this is her story.
W: Right. So, we get a lot of their workplace banter, maybe I can’t call it banter since usually they’re throwing barbs at each other, and the games Lucy says they play to get on each other’s nerves and continually work to one up each other.
A: Lots of tension building up in the workplace, which is mainly where we see them. Then, a chance for a big promotion comes up and pits them as rivals. Now the games really begin as this is Lucy’s dream job and she’s notabout to lose it to Josh.
W: No, she isn’t. A team building paintball event ends with Lucy sick and being taken care of by Josh and makes Lucy start to feel, and think, that maybe their hate might not be the real emotion each of them is feeling.
A: I really loved the dialogue in this novel and just the way Thorne let the tension build and build.
W: Okay, so I really did love her writing and will read more books by Thorne, but I didn’t believe Lucy and Josh. I don’t know why. And Lucy sort of creeped me out as a character. She seemed so clingy and weird and stalkerish and just strange whenever she was around Josh alone. It gave me an ick feeling. I don’t know how else to describe it.
A: I think if you would have watched the movie after reading, it would have taken the ick factor out. I read, I watched, and I reread it again. So good. Great story line.
W: I did like the story. I already have her other books on my stack. I don’t know. It was just these two characters for me.
A: It’s just you. I loved these characters and so did millions of others. That’s what makes us different…love your honesty though.
W: I know it’s me. I’m fine with that. Let’s talk tropes because as the Fated Mates ladies said, this was a tropey book.
A: And I’m all in. I’m going to start with the biggie, Enemies to lovers.
W: Yup, that’s the story. Fated Mates felt they were more rivals to lovers, but Lucy makes it pretty clear in the first lines of the book that she and Joshua are enemies. And they hate each other. Josh is Lucy’s nemesis.
A: She has decided that, for sure. Quick tangent, I really liked the title. Hate and love are a game—a game you have to win. Both Josh and Lucy like to win. I kind of got the feeling they were used to it, winning. At least in the workplace.
W: Well, they do make everything between them a game.
A: Yes, they do. The line … “I have a theory. Hating someone feels disturbingly similar to being in love with them.” We know Josh and Lucy are going to end up together. We know that they are in love. But Lucy doesn’t and this little line shows us the moment Lucy starts to question her feelings of hate.
W: And it’s so true. Both are such powerful emotions and can kind of blind the other out.
A: Exactly. I don’t think Josh is necessarily blind to what he’s feeling towards Lucy, which I think we learn as the story progresses and we get more from Josh in the dialogue, but Lucy definitely is.
W: She really focused on Josh being her enemy. She even kind of builds him up as an enemy of the office, describing how people are so scared of him and that he’s mean and snaps and never smiles.
A: Josh is certainly enemy number one. But, going into our second trope, forced proximity, it’s only a matter of time before Lucy is forced to face how she really feels about Josh.
W: Nice little play on words. More than just the office at work, Lucy often finds herself with just Josh …. In the elevator, in his car, in the woods during paintball, in her apartment when she’s sick, in his apartment. They’re constantly being thrown together in all kinds of scenarios.
A: I know! I just couldn’t imagine how she didn’t know Josh was secretly loving her from the start.
W: He didn’t return her smile on their first day. That set the tone.
A: For Lucy it certainly did. Josh just wanted someone who could handle him. He was testing Lucy.
W: And Lucy was passing. Last trope, there may be more, but we’re sticking with three, workplace romance.
A: Which is pretty short lived, since when they finally, finally get together, Josh tells Lucy he’s taken another job.
W: Well, that was part of the deal. Whoever got the promotion, the other would leave.
A: We all know that that work situation could never, ever work. They would not be able take commands from each other. At least in public.
W: They definitely could not. But I still say it’s a workplace romance because everyone around them could see what was happening and it was only a matter of time before the two of them realized it as well. Let’s get to the pillars.
A: This season we are breaking down each love story with Oliver Fox’s article “The 4 Pillars of Romance'' from the Writer’s Write blog to see how well each of these pillars is applied throughout the prose. Again, I’ve linked it in our bio for those who have not started with us at the beginning of this season. Starting with Pillar 1: The Couple: Lover and Beloved. Can’t have a romance without these two.
W: It’d be pretty difficult for sure. So, we have Josh our Lover and Lucy our beloved.
A: It wasn’t that clear cut for me, at least in the beginning. I feel like they both could fit into both categories as the story progressed.
W: Yeah, I can see that. It’s really hard to say one is pursuing the other, but you know they are the couple. They just don’t fit into those molds that perfectly. At first.
A: Right, because after Lucy is sick and Josh takes care of her, she has that sexy dream about Josh and she comes to work dressed to impress. To get his attention. That started to feel like pursuit to me. Like Juicy Lucy on the prowl…grrrrrrrrrr!
W: I can agree with that. I never felt like Josh pursued Lucy until Danny came into the picture. The fake date situation. Josh asks her why she’s so dressed up and she says she has a date and when Josh says he’s going to the same bar, she then scrambles to get a date for herself.
A: But …. We do learn Josh liked Lucy from the jump, so maybe Lucy doesn’t see it as Josh pursuing her, and remember, it’s first-person point of view, with Lucy telling her side of the story. And Josh did like to dish it out to her. I think that was his way of getting her attention. His very subtle way of pursuing her. Lucy just doesn’t pick up on it.
W: I do think you have a point there. But after Lucy acknowledges she might be feeling something more akin to love, or at least like, than hate, she gets all weird. Going over to his house. Walking all around his building. She even calls herself a stalker. And she’s super weird in her behavior when they’re alone in his apartment. That was the ick for me.
A: And to that point, I found Lucy to be a reliable narrator. This was one of the first first person point of views that I’ve read lately that I felt that way. Lucy doesn’t sugarcoat what she’s feeling or how she’s acting to us the reader. We see it all. . . Oh and My Josh will tell you I was a weirdy back when we first met…
W: You would be a Lucy. But I see your point.
A: And I think Lucy’s Josh does do things that you could say show him pursuing her …. Offers her a ride, picks her for his paintball team, takes care of her when she’s sick, getting the other job so he won’t lose Lucy when he realizes the promotion is her dream job.
W: They do sort-of switch back and forth with who’s pursuing who, kind of like a YOU’RE IT…no you’re it scenario but Josh is definitely the pursuer in the end. Especially after the whole mess at his brother’s wedding and Lucy finds out his brother married Josh’s ex-girlfriend. I think that’s a little detail he could’ve filled her in about.
A: But then we wouldn’t have had the drama of them finally, finally getting together, and you know what I mean by that, and the rest of Josh’s story.
W: Oh, we know. Calm down Elvis the Pelvis. Again, I see your point.
A: Okay Enis the Penis… stop There was one other thing that happens to Lucy and it’s pretty important.
W: What’s that?
A: Lucy has always thought that her mother gave up her dream as a journalist to be with her father on the farm and raise Lucy. Which speaking of the strawberry farm, I’m definitely getting more strawberry as this prosecco warms.
W: Very strong strawberry and a little bit of pear as well. It’s actually kind of getting more fruity tasting.
A: A perfect pairing to our book. How did that happen…stars align for us as always it seems Back to Lucy, she refuses to give up her dream and she has this laser focus in pursuing it. She doesn’t really have any friends and she has no love life. And she’s not about to let Josh get in the way either.
W: The no friends thing kind of made me question her personality, but that’s probably a better way to look at it.
A: Really? I just think she was really, really focused…on her work…lived in the city…look at us we have no friends. that’s because no one can handle us, our amazing energy or keep up with our prosecco swilling abilities. who needs friends when you have prosecco? We have each other it’s more than enough…but back to The Hating Game….So Josh comes along, she falls in love with him, and she evolves. She brings some balance into her life with love. She can have her dream job and love. And she realizes her mom does have that as well.
W: She needed that balance. She was getting to be a pretty lonely girl.
A: Yes, she was. Pillar 2: The Obstacles: Rivals, Taboos, and Loved Ones—Oh My!
W: Rival …. Maybe Danny. For about 30 seconds.
A: They are their own rivals, with all their game playing and, obviously, the promotion up for grabs. One of them has to lose and neither of them like to lose.
W: No they don’t. I think their biggest obstacle, besides themselves, of course, was the work taboos. No crossing any lines at work. Maintaining a professional work environment.
A: I think they did, they tried, but at the end, it seemed their bosses and HR knew all along what was inevitably going to happen.
W: But they kept it professional and then Josh took another job, so no one was ever really compromised.
A: I suppose that’s true. As far as loved ones goes, Josh could have an obstacle on his hands when he meets Lucy’s dad.
W: Oh yeah. Lucy’s been spilling her guts out about how awful Josh is. She’s going to have some explaining to do when she brings Josh home. Maybe some of that’s in the Epilogue. I would love to know how that went.
A: Oh…I’ll tell you. I’m sure that Josh laid on the charm and they loved him and everyone lived happily ever after. Except for Josh’s dad. He’s just miserable.
W: You really didn’t like him.
A: No, I didn’t.
W: Moving on to Pillar 3: The Romantic Arc: Winning and Losing and…Winning Back Again?
A: We were definitely up and down with these two. Are they going to get together? Nope. Not yet. They got so close so many times. Thorne really built the tension and I was so happy when it finally happened.
W: She did and so was I, but we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves.
A: Yes, sorry. So our soon-to-be-lovers meet at work after the merger. They’re in parallel jobs.
W: Josh, we learn this later, falls for Lucy straight away, but instead of being friendly and building that kind of relationship, he throws out barbs and gets right under Lucy’s skin.
A: Aaahhh …. It’s the beginning of a beautiful romance. And all the games they play, I can’t remember all of them, but there’s the mirror game, the staring game …
W: …. The HR game, the spying game …
A: Oh! The How You Doing game …
W: That one always made me think of Joey from friends and I read it in that voice.
A: HOW YOU DOING…I love Joey…But The games are their way of pursuing each other, because I do think it goes both ways. Game or games is in the book 97 times. I had to word nerd it.
W: Wow. We haven’t done that in a while. That’s a lot.
A: It’s all a game and they both hate to lose, so it’s hard to say who really wins over whom.
W: I feel like Josh won over Lucy. At least from her telling of the story.
A: Yeah, because it seems as if Lucy won over Josh from day one. It’s just that we don’t know that until the end.
W: That’s right.
A: And then they start to grow closer, something we see through the dialogue before Lucy does.
W: The dialogue was so good. Maybe I just need to reread it.
A: Or watch the movie. I think you’d love it.
W: I do think it would make a very good movie.
A: Let’s have popcorn and prosecco night and make Josh and Ruffino watch it with us.
W: Oh yeah…I don't think your Josh will be onboard.
A: If there’s wine involved…he’s in. So, our romantic arc continues and Josh almost loses Lucy at the wedding, with the whole Mindy ex-girlfriend marrying his brother fiasco.
W: Lucy thinks Josh brought her just to parade in front of Mindy. But they have a heart-to-heart and finally they admit what we’ve known all along, they are in love with each other.
A: And Lucy gets to stand up for her man at breakfast, when Dr. Daddy belittles Josh in front of everyone. Lucy to the rescue!
W: I think they rescued each other, in a sense. Josh rescued Lucy from a life of work and no love.
A: So, they both win in the end, which is the way it had to be for these two strong competitors.
W: Yup. Finally, Pillar 4: The Lover’s Sacrifice.
A: Well, neither of them like to sacrifice an inch, but I give it to Josh. He sacrificed the promotion so Lucy could have her dream job.
W: He did. And so, they could be together. Lucy made a bet that she would leave if Josh got the promotion, but we can see from her telling that she also thinks that if she leaves, it would mean the end of her and Josh. At least that’s the sense I got.
A: She did talk about not having much time left if she had to leave the company. I felt it strange she didn’t seem to think the relationship could continue if he got the job.
W: I don’t think her ego could’ve let it. My opinion.
A: Maybe not. But she got the guy and the job—
W: Did she? We never find out. That’s why I want to read that Epilogue.
A: I think she did, so I’m going to say she did. Now, with her new role, I hope she’s willing to sacrifice some time for Josh. Find a work—love—marriage, maybe? balance. I think she will.
W: Josh will help her. Anything else?
A: This one was tropey, I loved it, and she definitely included all the pillars. It was a good romance, for me. I know you felt differently.
W: I did, but I didn’t dislike it and it is a good romance. It’s just what I mentioned before, I wasn’t really into the characters, didn’t find their romance totally believable, but I liked the writing and I did like the story. I’m going to check out more by this author. Maybe I just don’t really like this trope, or I don’t know.
A: Everyone is entitled to their opinions and you don’t necessarily like everything you read.
W: Exactly. Final thoughts on this Fascino Prosecco Rosé?
A: I think it’s a charmer, just like its name, and I can’t believe I didn’t think of this before, but Lucy, Shortcake, Josh’s nickname for her, this one was just so perfect for all the strawberries in the book.
W: It is strong on the strawberry. I also got just a hint of lemon and peach, like strawberry-peach towards the end. A very good pair for our book and Lucy.
A: I would so pair this with strawberry shortcake.
W: Or angel food cake with strawberries.
A: That is shortcake.
W: I thought shortcake was like a sweet biscuit.
A: Well yeah, in the south, where they also use pound cake, but we’re from the Midwest. We use angel food and strawberries. That’s our shortcake. Didn’t you do that?
W: Yes, loved it. But we didn’t call it shortcake, we just called it angel food and strawberries. Shortcake was considered something different.
A: Oh. We called that shortcake.
W: Interesting. One state and a whole world away. I don’t know if I would pair this with cheese. I think this would be good with what you said, shortcake or angel food and strawberries. It was very good with the dark chocolate. Really got the strawberry with that.
A: So good. Dark chocolate is a win this season. But I think maybe a baked brie with a strawberry or apricot jam would be good.
W: That’s always good. This Fascino would make a good desert prosecco, I think.
A: I agree. But I really, really liked it. I’m giving it a 4.0.
W: I loved it. I give it a 4.0 as well and that’s a wrap, guys.
A: Join us in two weeks to discuss Haruki Murakami’s short story “On seeing the 100% perfect girl one beautiful April morning” which we will pair with Albino Armani Prosecco Rosé. Cheers!