Prosecco N Prose | A Book Club

Claire Gibson - Beyond the Point

November 11, 2020 Wendy & Amy Season 2 Episode 11
Prosecco N Prose | A Book Club
Claire Gibson - Beyond the Point
Show Notes Transcript

Celebrate Veteran's Day with Wendy, Amy,  and special guest Sadie as they kick off Season 2 with Claire Gibson's West Point set novel Beyond the Point. The bonds of friendship, military life, and a behind-the-scenes look at attending a military ball are all up for discussion. Pop a cork for our veterans!

Next Episode Link: "Luck" by Mark Twain 

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Prosecco N Prose | Season 2 | Episode 11 | Beyond the Point by Claire Gibson

 

Co-Hosts: Wendy (W) | Amy (A) | Sadie (S)

 

November 11, 2020

 

Introduction of Bubbly, Prose, and Podcast – 00:00:00

Welcome of Sadie, Our Special Guest – 00:00:47

Champagne Discussion and Tasting – 00:04:15

How We Came Across the Novel – 00:09:00

Author Information – 00:10:50

Main Character Introduction – 00:15:20

Historical Information on West Point Military Academy – 00:19:15

Summary with Spoilers – 00:22:14

Handful of Hyperbole

1)    Theme – Value of Friendship00:31:25

2)    Symbols and Motifs – Uniforms, Color Gray, Cross Symbol – 00:39:40

3)    Voodoo Name Book – Hannah and Dani – 00:46:20

4)    Game – What’s It Like to Be a Military Spouse – 00:57:45

5)    Random – Military language; What do we do at formal balls? – 00:57:45

Closing and Outro – 01:10:43

 

Next episode’s prose: Mark Twain’s short story “Luck”

 

 

00:00

(Cork pops and music starts…)

 

Amy (A): Welcome to Prosecco and Prose Episode 11. 

 

Wendy (W): This week’s bubbly is not prosecco, it is a true champagne, Veuve Clicquot.

 

A: This week’s prose is Beyond the Point by Claire Gibson.

 

INTRO – SAME EVERY EPISODE

 

00:47

 

W: Welcome back everybody! We are excited for Season 2 and very excited about this first episode. 

 

A: Not only do we have a great piece of prose this week, we also have a very special guest here to help us discuss.  

 

W: We do, and it couldn’t be more fitting for November, as not only do we honor our men and women in uniform, but November is Military Family month, where we also recognize the commitment and dedication of the families for those who serve our country. 

 

A:  And we have one of those family members with us today. She is an Army wife…she is an Army Mom…fellow DC book club member and friend—Sadie. Welcome Sadie. 

 

Sadie (S): Hey you guys thanks for inviting me. This is fun!

 

W: We are so happy to have you, Sadie. How about you tell everybody a little bit about yourself?

 

S: Well sure! My father was in the Army my whole life growing up. My husband has been in the Army our entire marriage. And three of our children have decided to join the Army. 

 

W: Wow!

 

S: Yeah! But just as important really are the friendships I have made in the Army, and that is how I got to know you ladies. 

 

W: And us you!

 

S: Yep, so Amy and I were never actually stationed together at the same place.

 

A: Nope, we weren’t 

 

W: Really? 

 

A: But you would never know it though.

 

W: No!

 

S: But we got to know each other through our husbands and mutual friends and through different conventions and events. And from there, I’ve had the joy of meeting and getting to know you, Wendy. So even after all these years, my Army family continues to grow! Honestly, in addition to traveling around the world, this is the best thing about Army life.  

 

W: Agreed!

 

A:  The military community is a small one, and it’s always a pleasure when you find yourself back, you know, with old friends. 

 

W: It truly is! And this day, this Veteran’s Day, it is a privilege for us to honor our vets...the men...the women … friends, spouses, children, fathers, mothers, sisters, and brothers … it’s a long list...who quietly serve our nation for a greater cause.

 

A:  I’d also like to thank Wendy, my co-host. You know … she’s a veteran as well. Happy Veteran’s Day, Wendy!

 

W: Why thank you, Amy! That means a lot! So, we, this trio of us…have just one favor to ask all of you listeners today, please thank a vet. We want these heroes to know their service is recognized and appreciated. Cheers to all soldiers, past and present.

 

A: And that’s the perfect segway into our bubbly.

W: Very smooth. Now as we mentioned, this week is not a prosecco. We asked Ms. Gibson if she had a favorite prosecco or bubbly. 

A:  And she told us she mostly drinks Topo Chico with lime slices, which is a sparkling water. Wendy, didn’t you see something on TV though that…

W: …YES, Coco Cola is making a variation of that is going to be a White Claw or whatever…it’s going to have a little bit of alcohol in it, but she drinks sparkling water.

S: Wait! I thought you ladies invited me have some of the good stuff. 

A:  Give me just a prosecco, Sadie! Ms. Gibson likes to indulge in a glass Veuve Clicquot Champagne Brut on very special occasions. Hey Wendy, how’s my French? 

W: Ça arrive! 

A: Ewwwww! 

S: I can’t help you there, but I can help you two indulge. Now this is a bottle for a special occasion! 

W: It is a special occasion having you here with us.

S: Well in that case, I’ll take a tall pour!

A: Now you're talking my language! We here only do tall pours!

S: We Army wives can tend to get a bit thirsty. 

A: It happens. Cheers guys!

CHEERS! (Ladies clink glasses)

00:04:15

W: Before we get to it … fun historical fact. 

A: Ewwww…I love a historical fun fact. It kind of reminds me of Sheldon Cooper. Do you guys know Sheldon Cooper? 

W: Isn’t that the BIG BANG THEORY DUDE? 

A: Yeah!

S: That’s what I thought. 

A: Fun Facts!

W: This is a fun fact; you’re going to love it. So, this used to be simply Clicquot. But after the untimely death of the founder’s son, his wife took over at age 27 and the house was renamed in her honor: Veuve Clicquot, which actually means The Widow Clicquot.

S: Wow! That kind of makes it more fitting for this novel. 

W: It kind of does. Now this champagne is a nice blend of wines. It is 50-55% Pinot Noir, 28-33% Chardonnay, and 15-20% Pinot Meunier. 

A: You mean Pinot Mu-no? It’s like bubbly humor, if you’re wondering, Sadie. 

W: No Pinot Meunier. It’s a black wine grape that is gaining popularity and it gives the champagne more body and richness.

S: Okay, I am looking at the notes, and it says that it’s a more reliable grape, from a growing perspective than the pinot noir. It’s most widely used by growers in Northern France.

A: Yes … now...if I can add another note on the grapes, you know I didn’t know that grapes could be reliable or unreliable… 

W: But don’t you remember when we were talking about rye and stuff? You have like different batches of wheat and stuff. Some are more reliable than when you are growing…

A: Okay Whatever! But with this champagne having a higher percentage of the Pinot Noir grape which, is obviously a less reliable grape, I can understand the price point. 

W: Makes sense. It’s 12% alcohol, dry, pairs well with seafood, salmon, fish tartare. It makes me think that it would go with sushi or something…

A: It might.

W: But it will run you $45 and up a bottle.

S: Ewwfff…okay. So, I actually I found this quite interesting in the notes. It’s probably also relates to the price point. It is hand-harvested in September.  So, if I can go a little nerdy here…

A: She said nerdy….

W: We like that.

S: The first fermentation takes place in a steel tank, and it’s given a second fermentation in the bottle, which takes about 15 months. 

A: But this is where the action like truly takes place. I’m talking about the trapping of gas to make our lovely bubbles. 

W: We know what those bubble do…

A: But it can take up to 3 full years for the aging process to complete. 

W: Alright ladies! Now for the fun part … tasting. Now Amy, you made a great tasting sheet for our book club’s prosecco tasting…I know this is champagne… think we could use it here?

A: Of course, let me grab one … here’s one for each of you. Okay, Ummmm...we started with color … What do you guys see in your glass? Let me grab mine, hold on. What do you see? 

W: I don’t even set mine down, so I don’t know what your problem is. 

A: I have to…I mean because I can’t drink the whole bottle in the first 30 minutes. 

W: Why not? What has stopped us before? 

S: Could!??? 

A: No one will listen to our podcast because we will be so “potsed.” 

S: It’s a really pretty pale golden color. It feels kind of celebratory!

W: It does! I love the color. Moving on to aroma … 

A: I really smelling some peach … 

W: And there are definitely some citrus notes … 

S: Hmmmm…well I’m not really good at picking up aromas, but I am ready for the fun part … tasting!

A: That’s what I love to do.

W: Same!

A: But I’m getting a bit of a green apple flavor … 

S: It’s definitely dry, and it’s citrusy … 

A: Well, I do taste some pear …well… hmmm … It’s got a tartness to it anyway.

W: It does…And I get the citrusy as well, which lends itself to the tartness. I think. 

A: Yeah maybe!

W: Now, while this is technically an Italian term …I don’t know what they do in France. Can we talk about the perlage?

A: How can we not?

S: It’s not really too fizzy, but there is a nice stream of bubbles in the glass.

W: Definitely got some good bubbles when you opened it, right Amy, but it’s not overly fizzy. I like that. We all know what too much bubbles leads to!

A: Yes, we do! Tons of burpy fun in the blooper reel! Now any thoughts on the finish?

W: It has what I would call a clean finish. And I can see the seafood pairing.

S: Uh-hummmThis is definitely a good one! I hope the bubbles don’t go too quickly to my head though!

A: And if they do, you’re amongst friends. No worries. 

W: Exactly…it’s been known to happen! So, there’s your spoiler. This is a delicious tipple! We can put the vintner’s page in the show notes for those of you who are interested in learning more about Veuve Clicquot.  

00:09:00

A: Hey are you guys ready to move on to the novel?

S: Yeah, I’m ready to go. 

W: Let’s get to it! And Amy, you found this one … how did you stumble across this wonderful work?

A: Well, I came across this novel while listening to the podcast Sarah’s Bookshelves Live. It’s one of my go-to’s for recommendations. She had an interview with the author, and I downloaded the novel immediately from the Army library. Wendy, both you and I, and is it safe to assume you as well, Sadie, love military literature…you know…whether it be fiction or nonfiction 

 

W: Yeah, love it!

 

S: Definitely!

 

A: I jotted down a few of my favorite. You know we’ve got Be Safe Love, Mom, Elaine Brye.  

 

S: I wanna read that. 

 

A: Her kids…all of her kids serve in the military if I remember correctly. Then we have an infantry officer’s wife, Angie Ricketts. She wrote…it’s nonfiction…It is No Man’s War. Uhhh…fellow Kiowa Warrior pilot, Jimmy Blackmon

 

S: Whoot whoot!

 

A: He wrote Pale Horse. He’s got another one, and I cannot think of it off the top of my head. Sorry Jimmy Blackmon. 

 

 

W: I just read that one, and it’s amazing. [unrecalled title: Cowboys Over Iraq

 

A: And then of course, we have Jim Frederick’s Black Hearts

 

W: I read that one too. 

 

A: Hubs was in that unit when all that horrible stuff went down. You know the poor behaviors, undisciplined soldiers, substance abuse…

 

W: It was a rough time. It was an excellent book, though. 

 

A: It was a great book. And there is currently the one that I am doing on buddy read on Facebook…It’s called The Flight Girls [Noelle Salazar]…it’s a WWII…Pearl Harbor…Pearl Harbor book. I’ll put those titles in our show notes. 

 

W: Perfect! Or, you could even Instagram them. Post them on our social media, so people can check them out. 

 

A: Sure. I’ll do that. But guys…What is truly unique about this piece … It's the first military fiction novel that I could find written about female soldiers. I knew then we had to read this book … AND... do this podcast for our first of two Veteran’s Day Episodes.

 

00:10:50

 

W: And I’m so glad we did. Beyond the Point is Claire Gibson’s debut novel and what a way to make an entrance into the literary world. This novel had me laughing, crying, gasping … I was captivated from the very first page.

 

A: It’s heartbreaking, but also a bit of heart-healing. As a military wife and the mother of a son serving as well, it really gave me all the feels.

 

S: I’m really with you! With two daughters who graduated from West Point and a son currently at Basic Training, so I definitely felt All the things.

 

W: Claire is a self-described Army brat, having moved eight times in 18 years. She grew up at West Point. Her father was a professor there. She is currently staying in one place, in Nashville, TN. She is also a journalist and this novel debuted April 2, 2019.

 

A: Now Ms. Gibson said she always had a feeling she was supposed to write about West Point or the Army … you know…her website... http://www.clairegibson.com/ It talks about her inspiration for this piece and has stories from some of the women she interviewed for the novel. If this novel has you hungering for more, like it did me, check out her website for more backstory.

 

W: Now as we mentioned, Ms. Gibson was gracious enough to answer a few questions we had for her. West Point, which we will talk about in a bit, is a beautiful campus. I’ve only seen pictures, but Sadie, perhaps you can elaborate?

 

S: Oh yeah you guys! It is truly majestic to see for the first time. There are these imposing stone buildings that have seen generations of Cadets walk through their doors. The pristine parade field where ceremonies take place, and the historic homes and chapels scattered around post, not to mention the powerful Hudson River that, depending on time of year, can be picturesque or indeed quite intimidating.

 

W: That is quite a description. That was incredible. I want to go visit. 

 

A: I mean it just seems to have a presence, especially in photos that I’ve seen. I’ve never been there. Now we did discuss this novel in our local book club, and Ms. Gibson, in a discussion at the end of the novel says it’s like going to school at Hogwarts...that’s just a tangent for all you Harry Potter fans. We also had a fellow book club member concur about the Hogwarts descriptions.

 

W: I definitely get that from pictures. Now, we asked Ms. Gibson if she had a favorite hiding spot on campus…can you imagine…there has to be some? And she said there is a mile-long hike called Flirtation Walk that is hidden from the main campus. She used to run there as a kid, and I can only imagine a cadet or two has snuck away to get a bit of alone time!

 

A: Oh, you know it! Hey Sadie, do your daughters know about this hiding spot?

 

S: Taaaa! Well, If they do know about it, they certainly haven’t shared that information with their mother!

 

W: Probably not! While Ms. Gibson told us, she has no plans for a sequel at the moment, we were curious about her thoughts on it being made into a movie.

 

S: Oh, I would love that!


 A: Me too…me too … ummmm… But she said it has been optioned by a major studio for TV, but COVID has had a huge impact on things of that nature. 

 

S: Dang COVID. 

 

A: I know…I know it! She did share her thoughts on prospective minor cast members. Ms. Gibson would like to see new up-and-comers casted for our three leading ladies.

 

W: Yeah … I really can’t see anybody that pops out, except maybe Zandaya for Dani. When you mentioned you asked that question, she was the only one I could see in a role. She definitely exemplifies Dani’s strong, take no excuses attitude. Like Dani, she has no apologies for how she’s living her life, and she shouldn’t.

 

A: Oh, that’s a great example. And I agree. . . Now she did have some thoughts for a couple other characters…Wendy Bennett … our cadet sponsor Mom.

 

S: Yeah!

 

W: She’s was pretty valuable…like their den mother…I guess; it’s a good way for me to put it … someone they can turn to for the comfort of family while having to be away from their own family.

 

S: I mean really…the Army has a lot of those, both men and women, and we love them.

 

A: Ms. Gibson said she’d love to see Tracee Ellis Ross in the role of Wendy Bennett and Tilda Swinton as the basketball coach. I had to look both of them up. 

 

W: Ooooh! That is a good one! I can see that. Tilda Swinton would be perfect as the coach. I can totally picture that. Anything to add before we introduce our three main characters?

 

A: Well, as a mother of a service member... and Sadie... I’m sure you can relate as well, I asked her how she would feel if her boys wanted to serve in the military. 

 

S: Oh yeah. That’s such a hard one because you know it is honorable and good, but it isn’t the safest.

 

W: No, but we support them. And that’s exactly what Ms. Gibson said.

 

00:15:20

 

S: It’s the only way. Hey guys I am excited to dig into these characters … 

 

A: Me tooSo the story revolves around three main characters and is told, in alternating chapters from each character’s point of view. . . Quick introduction here... all three are seniors in high school as the book opens. Dani from Columbus, Ohio…a star basketball player… uhhhh…she is being heavily recruited. She is incredibly smart, earning a near-perfect score on the PSAT. But for DANI, people only want to talk about basketball, which frustrates her. I would frustrate me too.

 

W: Yeah. Her education is important to her. She doesn’t want to be pigeon-holed. 

 

S: Yeah for sure. 

 

A: I mean…The only dribbling I do is from my mouth. But let’s get back to Dani. [Cheers and clink of glasses]. Dani’s being recruited by the West Point coach and is so unfamiliar with West Point that she asks if it’s a high school. I thought that was kind of funny.

 

S: Yeah!

 

A:  BUT the moment she steps on campus for her visit, her decision is made.   There was this quote in an interview that I found, Ms. Gibson said she was inspired by Dani … “she finds the middle ground of confidence and humility that’s hard to strike.”

 

W: Yeah, she did that very very well and Ms. Gibson wrote that very very well. 

 

S: She did …

 

W: Avery, from Pittsburg, Pennsylvania, is the beautiful, popular girl on campus. She is also a star basketball player and a bit of a party girl. She fills out an application to West Point for an assignment and when they call back to ask her to apply, she sees the disbelief in her family’s eyes and decides to prove them wrong and wipe the disbelief off their faces. For Avery, there is one huge perk to West Point. It is free and she will not owe her parents anything. She doesn’t want to be in debt to her parents, and she knows they don’t really have the money for college.

 

A: No, they didn’t. I didn’t think they did either. 

 

W: Plus, she has a cousin who joined and got stationed in Italy, so … free education, guaranteed job after, possible exotic locale … seems like a deal to Avery. 

 

A: It truly is a deal for some. Think of all the prosecco. I mean come on….

 

W: I know first-hand. 

 

A: Now Ms. Gibson also said a part of her is like Avery, “She lives out loud and doesn’t apologize for her instincts and impulses.” I like that! Why should she apologize? 

 

S: She shouldn’t, my goodness. Finally, we’ve got Hannah. She’s from Austin, Texas, and has the military in her blood. Her grandfather is a retired Army general. Hannah is also a basketball player and strict rule follower. Having watched her older sister get in trouble…you know there is always one…

 

A: Uh hum… I was the one!

 

W: I was the one. 

 

S:  She learned it was easier to follow the rules and the rules worked.

 

W: They do actually. 

 

S: As a sixth grader, she visits West Point with her grandfather for his 40th reunion and as Hannah watches him share stories with his former classmates, or Old Grads as they call them, she decides she wants her own stories to tell.  She doesn’t want to be on the sidelines just watching. Her grandfather isn’t as pleased with her choice as she thought he might be, though.

 

W: No…I mean he…they’re on the porch, I can just see …

 

A: There was just so much realism in the writing.

 

W: Yes, there was… he tells her “there are things I’ve endured that no woman should have to endure.”

 

A: Oh, I loved this. 

 

W: What did you think as the mother of two West Pointers when you read that line? 

 

S: It was funny because I didn’t feel that way so much, but my father, who is also a West Point grad definitely felt that way about my girls going to West Point. Because back when he was in, women couldn’t attend. It was a whole new thing. 

 

W: Yeah…I was fairly recent. 

 

A: I can’t remember what year women started…

 

S: …1980 was the first graduating class with West Point.  But Hannah’s a bit taken aback by her Grandfather’s lack of support of her attending West Point. She feels he just doesn’t get it...

 

A: And like the other girls, it makes her even more determined. Now before we get to our summary, we’d like to give just a bit of info on West Point, a major part of the setting for our novel.

 

W: We can’t resist a bit of research! West Point, the oldest continually occupied military post in the United States, as it was originally established as a fort, is formally known as the United States Military Academy, but also as Army, Army West Point, and simply, The Point … a little nod to our title.

 

A: Oh, wow! Didn’t know that last one. But It is a four-year federal service academy in West Point, New York, and is the oldest of the five American service academies. Its roots can be traced back to 1801 and was established in March of 1802-----I’m a little slow on the math…that’s about…200…218…my son’s the mathematician…I think it’s 218 years ago!

 

W: I’m just going to trust you on your time, but it’s been an institution for a long time.  Tuition is fully funded in exchange for an active duty service obligation of five years. Graduates are commissioned as second lieutenants in the Army.

 

S: Uh-hum…and West Point admitted its first female cadets, 119 young ladies, in 1976. This paved the way for many women to come, including my two daughters.

 

A: The West Point alumni and current cadets are collectively referred to as the “Long Gray Line.” I mean this includes two presidents, numerous generals, and 76 Medal of Honor recipients. I mean even my son’s mother-in-law’s sister is also a graduate of West Point. So, a huge shout out to Aunt Cheryl. Whoot! Whoot! Aunt Cheryl. 

 

W: Now some of those notables include … Custer, Jefferson Davis, Ulysses S. Grant, Stonewall Jackson, George S. Patton, John J. Pershing, Robert E. Lee … 

 

S: Some more current notables: Buzz Aldrin, Dwight D. Eisenhower, Norman Schwarzkopf, Hal Moore, author of We Were Soldiers Once and Young, Anthony Noto, the CFO of Twitter. The list is long, and so surprising.

 

W: Twitter?  

 

S: Yeah!

 

W: That’s crazy! Now this gentleman was a non-graduate cadet, okay, it means he attended, but did not graduate, and you’re going to love this Amy!  Edgar Allen Poe.

 

A: No way! Edgar! I just did an Instagram on him last month. 

 

W: Yeah…well he was! Yeah, he went there. He attended. He served … this tells it all…he served as an NCO in the Army from 1827 to 1829.

 

S: Okay, so you’re already starting with the acronyms, Wendy …

 

W: Sorry!

 

S: NCO, as in non-commissioned officer.

 

A: Oh yeah…some of our listeners are not going to know these acronyms. 

 

W: Right, but as we said, as they graduate from West Point, they become commissioned officers so that “N,” meaning he wasn’t commissioned is kind of telling. 

 

A: Right. 

 

W: I mean it just becomes part…it just becomes a part of our language; you guys know that!

 

A: Yes, and we will get to that “military language” a bit later. Now we’ve just barely scratched the surface of West Point. There is so much more to this prestigious school, so if that’s got you intrigued, I’ll put a link in the show notes for our listeners to satiate their curiosity.

 

W: That’s a great idea. Are you guys ready for our summary?  

 

00:22:14

 

A: And for our new listeners, there are some possible spoilers ahead...so if you haven’t yet read the novel, you can always stop this episode and come back later. . . This read really felt like there was a triadic element to it, wouldn’t you say? 

 

S: Ewww…good word!

 

W: Yeah! 

 

A: It is told from the viewpoints of each of the three main characters … I mean, it is broken into three time periods in their lives … ummmm…There’s also three life changing events within the pages. 

 

W: I agree with that. I noticed it as well, though, for the technicality part of it, there are actually four parts to the book. But, the fourth part really reads like an epilogue for me. 

 

S: Yeah…It really did. And I felt like we really got to know each girl as Ms. Gibson did such a great job of developing her characters. 

 

W: I know I really felt connected to the girls, the story…

 

A: There were parts of each of the girls that I connected with…I mean…Hannah, she was the mother hen. I am a mother hen! Dani, she connects people…I connect people. Avery, she lives on the edge. I live on edge every day of my life. 

 

W: That’s true. 

 

S: You are an Army wife so...   

 

W: That’s our…that’s our job. I had a better connection with Avery’s character. What about you Sadie, was there one you connected with more.  

 

S: Ehhhh you know…

 

A: …I’d say Hannah. 

 

S: Yeah, probably Hannah of those three. 

 

A: You are Hannah.

 

S: I am Hannah. 

 

W: But you also probably had a connection in the fact that you could see your daughters a little bit. Maybe?

 

S: Yeah…I really could. I could see my daughters and also some of their friends in both the main three characters and some of the outlying characters as well. 

 

W: Okay that always makes the book even more….

 

A: …Yes, especially when you connect with the characters. 

 

W: The novel opens with one of my favorite literary devices—a prologue. 

 

A: Mine too!

 

W: Yes, and I just want to also point out how Ms. Gibson dated each section and chapter.

 

S: Not chapter titles, but a way to ground the reader in the time and place. I really liked it. The prologue takes us straight to Hannah as she is serving in the War in Afghanistan. Through a series of emails, we learn there has been a death as a result of the war. 

 

A: In the section “Before,” we meet Dani, Avery, and Hannah in the Winter of 2000 just as they are moving into the final semester of their senior year of high school. The section, “Before” follows the ladies, now cadets, through their four years at West Point.

 

W: They meet as freshmen playing basketball and forge a strong friendship while surviving their sadistic coach, as well as the day to day trials that are West Point. We get an idea of just how regimented and grueling obtaining an education at this service academy really is. 

 

A: Well Dani excels in class and in basketball until she was seriously injured during a field training exercise between her freshman and sophomore year…I think it was at Camp Buckner…is that correct? 

 

S: Yes!

 

A: It is during her recovery at the home of Wendy Bennett and her husband Col. Bennett…he was a professor at the school that we really see how the sponsor family situation works. Sadie, you may want to elaborate on sponsor family just a little bit. 

 

S: Yeah…At my girls’ time there, we had a family emergency which required us to reach out to our own version of the Wendy Bennett character. I actually told her that we’d be doing this podcast and to kind of listen to it. 

 

W: Oh thanks!

 

S: So, a little nod to my friend. She knows who she is. But it solidified, in my mind, that as long as there are people out there like her, that my girls would be just fine. And even since they’ve graduated, we have seen that played out on a few different occasions.

 

A: Well Wendy Bennett really becomes a backbone of support for the girls throughout the entire story. 

 

S: She did. 

 

A: Someone they can always, in a sense, come home to. I just loved her. 

 

W: It’s probably because both of you are Wendy Bennett’s. 

 

S: Oh Amy, for sure!

 

W: For sure. Avery, frustrated at being relegated to the JV team, pushes the rules at West Point by sleeping with at least one upperclassman, though rumors fly that there are more. That is a big no-no, I’m sure. 

 

S: That is a huge no-no!

 

W: When Dani is injured, she is moved up to varsity, but she still struggles to find her true confidence in a school full of bright, high achievers. Then, her world is turned upside down and her character is put into question when nude photos are leaked on campus.

 

S: Heart-breaking!

 

W: I know!

 

S: So, Hannah, sustained by her found faith, keeps her head down and works hard. She becomes a bit of a room mother to the other girls and the other members of the basketball team. She is an encourager and supporter, and she’s always looking for the good in everyone. But Hannah wants to find love, and she worries that it won’t happen for her until Tim catches her eye in class. After months of pining, Dani sets them up for a ballroom dancing class and romance blossoms.

 

A: Well when the Twin Towers are hit their sophomore year, the girls are faced with the very real possibility of going to war after graduation. There is an immediate shift at West Point as that possibility becomes reality for all the cadets. Little did we know that the day would change all of our lives forever. I recall getting our son ready for school...ummm, you know we lived caddy-corner to Fort Rucker Elementary in Alabama on Red Cloud Rd. So where were you guys? Where were y’all?

 

W: I was actually in the military at the time…

 

A: Ohhh I guess you were…

 

W: Yes, I was…stationed in Germany. I remember going on a guard duty rotation for the next week or so. Walking the perimeter of the airfield. I never even saw actually news footage of it for several weeks. Living on the economy, you know, you don’t always get to see that stuff. It was definitely a scary, and kind of surreal time for me.

 

S: We were near Boise, Idaho at the time. I was in the middle of feeding breakfast to my 3-year-old twin daughters…

 

W: Are these the West Point Grad daughters? 

 

S: They are…I only have one set of twins thank goodness. 

 

W: One set is probably enough!

 

S: Oh yeah…. But truthfully, my one-year-old son when my husband’s coworker called and told us to turn on the TV. 

 

A: It was so shocking; I felt the same disbelief the girls felt when they were at Wendy Bennett’s. Now in the second part of the book, the section call “Between” … ummmm…we see the girls settle into their life after West Point. Dani, medically discharged and at a loss as she struggles to find her place in the civilian world, lands a very lucrative job in research that eventually takes her to London. Can we talk about this job? I mean can you imagine sitting there watching these…probably handsome gentlemen…showering? You know a little scrub, scrub here…lathering up…a little scrub, scrub there…whoops, dropped the soap. 

 

W: So, was the point to study their showering habits, like the order they did things? 

 

S: Yeah…like their routine. Their structure of how they go about getting ready during the day so...yeah! 

 

W: How do you get signed up for that job? 

 

A: I would have been drawing pictures rather than taking notes. 

 

W: You would have, but I can be a researcher under the right circumstances. 

 

A: Put me in the shower with a couple gentlemen…I mean hello! 

 

W: I don’t think that was part of her job, Amy.

 

A: I am sure the hubs would not like that. 

 

W: Josh, probably would not be on board. All right, moving on, if I may from the shower. Avery, now at Fort Bragg, seems to be just living on the surface, falling into her old pattern of using men for sex and closing herself off to developing any kind of meaningful relationship with men or women even. She’s good at her job, very good in fact, and it lands her to lead the very important task of wiring the Special Forces facilities…. 

 

A: A job that relies on discretion, for sure. And while she excels at discretion in her job, it’s not necessarily the case in her love life. 

 

W: Yeah. 

 

A: I mean she starts dating Noah, that Special Forces officer who may have even more secrets than Avery herself.

 

W: Probably!

 

S: So, Hannah, who is also stationed at Fort Bragg, NC, is now married to Tim. She is away at Sapper school, which is one of many different trainings that military folks can go to. But this is a tough one; she is there overcoming every punch thrown her way to become the tenth female graduate of the school. Spoiler alert… she succeeds! 

 

A: She does!

 

S: Hannah and Tim both deploy, though not together, but they do spend a blissful two weeks of mid-deployment leave at a beach cottage before their world crashes down.

 

A: It was so romantic, wasn’t it? 

 

S: R & R is the best, isn’t it? 

 

W: Yeah, it is!

 

A: I mean, just the realism in Gibson’s writing. It was just amazing. 

 

W: “Beyond,” the third section, deals with the aftermath of losing someone in war. The girls dig deep to find their strength to not only support each other, but rise up from the ashes. This section was incredibly heartbreaking to read. You can really feel the emotion. And particularly, when you’ve been faced with the same tragedy, it gets right to your heart and soul. 

 

S: Finally, the last section, “Begin Again,” reads very much like an epilogue and how they pick up the pieces to have a new normal.  

 

A: This book … wow … just wow! It truly gave me all the feels. 

 

00:31:25

 

W: For sure. Let’s get to our revamped, Handful of Hyperbole and kick it off with themes.

 

A: The key theme here is the value of friendship, and one the author hopes readers take away. The need we all have for those deep-seeded friendships. 

 

W: Yes!

 

A: There is a line Wendy Bennett says early on in the novel, and one Avery comes back to near the end: “People remember who showed up for the crappy moments far more than they remember who showed up for the party.” And that, you know, really resonated for me. It was such a true statement. For Dani, Avery, and Hannah, having the shared experience of West Point. I think Heather called this “shared misery.”  I just called it embracing the suck. 

 

W: Yes, I think Heather concurred with you for sure. Ummm, Heather is a fellow book club member and West Point grad who was gracious enough to talk with us and give us some context for West Point and the West Point experience.

 

S: I think there were so many shared misery experiences, or crappy…can…well…I guess Wendy Bennett. 

 

A: You can say crappy…

 

S: I guess if Wendy Bennett said it, I can say it. 

 

W: Of course, if Wendy said it, you know it’s good. 

 

S: So, they were there for each other, supporting each other.

 

W: I think there is so much value in this … it’s easy to be there for the good times…those are the fun times, right? But the bad times … not so much, but these girls were. Every time. What were some of the moments that really stood out for you guys? Moments where you knew their friendship was deepening?

 

A: So, I’m kind of thinking about the Avery and Dani connection. 

 

W: Okay!
 
 

A: Okay! I mean there definitely was some contention in the beginning of the relationship when they first met…. 

 

W: Competition as well…

 

A: Yeah! Competition which definitely transpired into some contention. 

 

W: Oh yeah….

 

A: Because Dani made varsity and they both had the same position.

 

W: Right. 

 

A: Avery back home was the IT girl, and Dani was too. Somebody’s got to get picked and somebody’s got to be left behind. Avery kind of had a chip on her shoulder…

 

W: She did…

 

A: You know when it came to Dani, and Avery was used to being the “It” girl. Sounds like she was a blonde beautiful girl…all the guys liked her…

 

W: Yep…

 

A: Fun to be around at the party…

 

W: Yep…

 

A: But they really kind of connected that summer after her freshman year at Camp Buckner.

 

W: They did!

 

A: They did…

 

W: Yep! The moment on the bunks…

 

A: Oh absolutely…but then you know, Dani got hurt…

 

W: Right!

A:  And Avery was able to show some empathy and sympathy with the situation. And there was this quote that really spoke to me…It said that “Everyone wants to be the friend who helps, no one wants to be the friend who needs help” and Avery said that.

S: Ahhhh! 

A: And that really spoke to me…. 

S: So true!

A: With the friendship situation.

W: That does make sense. Yeah!

A: So, what about you Sadie…was there anything there about the friendship situation that spoke to you? 

S: Well…

W: I just want to add the guilt Avery felt moving up because Dani couldn’t play anymore…

A: You’re right…

W: And Dani…Dani wasn’t…I mean…she was upset that she couldn’t play but she didn’t take that out on Avery. 

A: No…and she was there coaching her. 

W: Right…she was a huge supporter for the girls on the team. 

S: It feels to me like Dani’s confidence was really genuine confidence in her abilities and her place in the world even though things didn’t go the way she really wanted them to whereas Avery was constantly needing something. You could never feel her up. 

A: She was kind of insecure and she was very needy.

W: Yeah! 

A: That’s really good…ummm hummm! 

S: Speaking of Avery, one of the relationships that I thought was really interesting was Hannah and Avery. Ummm…They had kind of a mother daughter sort of relationship. 

A: I never even thought about that. 

S: Yeah! She was always trying to mother everybody…protect everybody. She was the one who went to bat for Avery during the scandal with the nude photos. And then yet…later on…when Avery had her boyfriend…Noah…she kind of disappeared on Hannah and just didn’t…you know she went…

W: Rights…she didn’t return calls…missing lunch dates….

A: …and the girls didn’t like Noah either. 

W/S: No

A: Remember the Thanksgiving, the girls did not really chime in with him. 

W: They had a feeling. 

S: Yeah! 

W: That’s all we’ll say. 

A: Instinct!

S: Yep…you got to trust that instinct. But you know…even with all that, they still had that bond because of that common embracing the suck…

W: Shared misery…

S: Earlier and going through everything together. Even though Hannah felt like a leftover friend for Avery.

A: Oh yeah…leftovers…that was the perfect word.

S: Yeah! No, she really did. Later on, when Hannah needed help, Avery came through. 

W: Avery came through big time for Hannah.

A: Yes, she did! 

W: I just think there were so many times that they just came together and supported each other and they weren’t the good times…the basketball team dealing with the coach…when Dani got injured…Avery’s scandal…I mean…watching the Twin Towers …They were all there together.    And…then the death…I mean…what harder time to be there for somebody. But before we move on from this Amy, I know…Wendy Bennett…Your favorite character…

 

A: Oh yeah…

W: I know you have some things you want to add about her. And, she wasn’t technically on our list, but she was really valuable in their friendships. 

A: Well I just think of Wendy Bennett and in her role, she helped forge these girls’ friendship from the very beginning. Wouldn’t you say?

 

S: Absolutely! 

 

W: Oh, for sure!

 

A: I know I continuously bringing her up, but she was the character that I most identified with. You know...Mrs. Hospitality. 

 

W: Well, that is you … Mrs. Hospitality. 

 

A: But you know I could actually be cast for Wendy Bennett. Wouldn’t you say? 

 

W: We’ll talk to Ms. Gibson. 

 

S: Ohhhhh yeah! 

 

A:  I just love a shared experience in anything social. But she wasn’t just there for the bad times; it was also the little things she did for the girls during the good times… 

 

W: Exactly…like giving them a safe space to come.... 

 

A: Ice cream socials…the chili…the bible studies.

 

S: A little piece of home!

 

A: You know we’ve had and been those people in our lives…

 

W:Especially in the military. 

 

A:  I keep going back to a situation…I was thinking about a friend who I had to help while we were stationed at Fort Campbell, KY. I mean, she had left her ID at home. We were coming back from workout and I had to go to her house, get that ID, had to leave her at the gate, come back. Those gate guards will not let you through unless you have some sort of ID.

 

S: Oh…No!

 

W: And a military ID is what they prefer…

 

S: Oh no…it can’t just be any ID. I wish that was a surprising incident to me, but I’ve had the same thing happen.  I was at Fort Drum, NY, again, had forgotten my ID card on my way back home from school with the kids. Had to call a neighbor I didn’t know very well, have her go into my house…that was a mess, of course...and bring me my ID card. And then had to have it…about a year ago here in Virginia, same thing. 

 

A: And they are tight up here. At Fort Myer, VA…That’s where all the bigwigs live. You can’t get on post without military ID…you have to have someone sign you in if you are not a military member. So, I mean…they know who is on that post at all times. 

 

W: At all times. 

 

S: But I am very thankful for that. 

 

A: Oh absolutely. 

 

W: Yes, I am too. It may sound like an inconvenience, but you just get used to it. I mean you have your ID card everywhere. They are slippery little things get left more places than they should. 

 

A: I’ve only lost it once, and then you have to report it to the police. I think the hubs is never happy with me in situations like that. 

 

W: It only takes about one time.  Or…it’s not necessary that you lost it. I always remember leaving it when you pull up to the gate or the moment you get on the other side of the gate. 

 

S: Oh yeah!

 

W: Your like…ahhhhh…this could be a problem. 

 

A: And you cannot punch a hole in it and put it around your neck. 

 

W: No, you can’t. You just got to have it like a driver’s license but more important. 

 

A: Right, so we all have our go-to people. 

 

S: For sure! But the beauty of military life is that we are people from all walks of life thrown together. We have to learn how to get along with people from all different backgrounds and with different ways of being in the world. And yet, sometimes it is the people you least expect, like the Michelle Jenkins’s of the world, who show up when you really need them.

 

A: You learn very quickly who your people are in this Army life.  Your people...your village! Right?

 

W: Exactly.  You guys ready? Let’s do just a couple symbols and motifs.

 

00:39:40

 

S: Sounds good. 

 

A: I’m ready. 

 

W: So, one that really stood out for me immediately was the uniform, obviously. The gray uniform the cadets wear in college and then the green uniform you wear after for your military service. I’ve worn the uniform …I love not thinking about what to wear in the morning. It has this ability to both unite those wearing it and separate them. It’s both inclusive and exclusive. 


 A: There’s also more than one uniform these soldiers…these cadets have to wear. Their school grays, work greens, dress blues. The uniform is a form of communication to those around you wouldn’t you say?  It tells what your intentions are. You may be PTing it...turning a wrench...flying a helicopter...taking care of patients...the list goes on and on and on....

W: Definitely! 

S: And it’s not limited to the military. 

 

W: Good Point!

 

S: I think about how Dani’s boss in London dressed. Always the same severe black dress. 

 

A: Severe black dress. 

 

S: It was severe. And her uniform sends a message as well.

 

W: It did. I just kind of like a message of a man in uniform!  I don’t know about you guys? 

 

A: I just like the message of a man taking a shower, and I have to take notes. 

 

W: And that’s a whole different uniform. Do you think that’s a Speedo uniform? Or a boxer uniform? 

 

A: Well, I think they were wearing shorts. 

 

W: Bummer! But it did in the case of Dani’s boss. I’m kind of sweating here, but are some things you guys noticed about the symbols? 

 

A: Well I definitely noticed the color gray. You know I am the color queen. 

 

W: You are the color queen. 

 

A: We’ve mentioned in prior episodes the color gray. This is a color of compromise, neutrality, reliability but it can signify an indecisive and unemotional quality. It can even isolate. 

 

S: You know gray is the perfect symbol when it comes to West Point. As you mentioned in your history of West Point, the lineage and fellowship that exists among all the graduates is known as "The Long Gray Line." The uniforms are called "dress grays" or "white over grays." And the period from January through March …oh….is called "the gray period" because everything is just bleak and gray, from the stone buildings, to the water of the Hudson river, the surrounding hills, and even the overcast sky. Add in the Cadets with no color. Just in their gray uniforms. You can see how fitting this expression is.

 

A: Equality…uniformity. 

 

W: Right…both inclusive and exclusive, but what a picture you painted. Ummm and the cadets, to go back to your meaning of gray. I think it would be fair to say are learning the art of compromise, neutrality, and reliability.

 

A: I couldn’t agree more.  Now Hannah’s cross necklace stood out for me. Wearing a cross necklace is such a personal statement. Some wear it out in the open where others may keep it close to their hearts underneath their shirt. For me, the cross represents sacrifice and the ultimate love for someone other than self. Someone bigger than me that sacrificed His life, so I could move forward with mine. You know this is a sacrifice soldiers are faced with, and I felt Hannah wasn’t just a wearer of the symbol. She walked the walk and talked the talk throughout the entire novel. 

 

W: What you saw is what you got with Hannah. 

 

A: Same with Sadie. What you see is what you get? 

 

S: I’m sorry!

 

W: Same with you. I would never apologize for that. 

 

A: NEVER!

 

W: So, I did feel like when it came to hard times, Hannah always reached for her cross, and it was a place for her to receive strength.

 

S: I agree. And while West Point, and indeed our entire military, is made up of people from every different faith, the cross is a representation in this book of having something to reach for during the tough times in life. 

 

W: Exactly! Well said. Now moving on…my favorite part. Time for some name fun with the Voodoo Name Book. What did you find Amy?

 

00:43:33

 

A: I found some pretty revealing things on Hannah and Dani. Avery, unfortunately, didn’t make the voodoo cut.

 

S: Awww, too bad … think it would’ve been pretty interesting and insightful. Tell about Hannah.

 

A: Well Hannah means grace. They are impressive women and people respect them for their behavior, especially the way they present themselves in her arguments. Remember when Hannah went up against Tim in the classroom? The talk about justice?

 

W: I do remember that. She’d been pretty much flying under the radar up until that point. 

 

S: Oh yeah; Now that was true. 

 

A: Now let’s go back to the gray, a Hannah splits the world into black and white with very little gray in-between. She believes in sacrificing for the greater good.

 

S: Yeah, well she really rallied to Avery’s defense when the photos were leaked.

 

W: Yes, she really did. And she also was the only one to approach their coach…that lovely woman…about ending practice on time so the team would have time to clean up before dinner.

 

A: You got to sit down for dinner. You can’t be late for dinner. You probably won’t get dinner if you’re not there. 

 

W: What would happen if you’re late? 

 

S: Oh, I don’t even know, but it’s a very regimented…

 

W: Do you have to be in a particular uniform?  

 

S: Ummmm…hummmm

 

A: Getting back to the Hannah’s. I definitely think our Hannah emerged as a leader of the group. Thoughts on that? Was she the leader of the group? And also, I kind of think as a female soldier. All the way to the end. But I just think about of her tackling Sapper school.

 

W: I mean…that name seems to fit her perfectly. So…what about Dani?

 

A: So, Danielle’s! It’s our Dani’s full name, right? 

 

W: Yes!

 

A: They come across as easygoing and modest, but they have an iron will.

 

S: Oh yeah that’s definitely our Dani!

 

A: Yes, it is. Danielle’s are balanced and successful, but they do like to be in control of their destinies.

 

W: I can see that. When she received the medical discharge from West Point rather than a commission, it turned her world upside down.

 

A: Oh, it did!

S: And she likes to be in charge and doesn’t have problems administering tasks. However, she does this with charm and grace. People like helping her. She is sensitive and compassionate with others. But she knows if she is to be successful, others need to be a part of that goodwill. 

W: I love this name stuff … It's always enlightening. Are we ready for some fun and games?

S: I think we need to top off our glasses!

00:46:20

A: Okay … so we thought it might be fun to give you guys a glimpse into what it’s like to be a military spouse. And those listeners that are will be able to relate to our game!

 

W: Sooooo …. We’re going to play What’s it like to be an Army spouse? We have questions on this spinner Amy made here, and we will just start spinning and get started!

 

S: But let’s add one more element to spice it up…

 

A: Oh no!

 

W: It’s probably good. 

 

S: If any of us have matching answers, it’s time to drink up!

 

W: That’s a good one. 

 

A: That sounds fun, and I like your style! But Sadie, as our guest, you get to go first spin

 

S: Oh boy! Okay, here we go! [Sadie spins] So, number 7! Do over? Do you one thing you wish you could go back and do again? Positive or negative. Hmmmm…just one thing. 

W: Yeah…you limited us to one? 

S: That’s tough. You know, the Army family is constantly changing and I think it’s becoming more and more inclusive now days. At one of my duty stations, we had an event…it was a family …it was more of a spouse event…and for certain reasons we chose to only include spouses. We didn’t include girlfriends, boyfriends, fiancés…whatever. There were reasons for that, but I think there were some hard feelings about it. If I could go back and do it all over again, I think we would have been more inclusive…and hopefully now days… 

A: …and maybe revamp the program?

S: I think yeah!

A:  Because there are some times that if they’re not a spouse, you can’t bring them in. 

S: Right, exactly! But I do think, with this program, we could have figured out a way to make it work. 

W: Right!

S: …And I do think people are doing a better job now. 

W: I think so too...recognizing that maybe partners…it doesn’t have to have a certificate to be a part of it.

S: Yeah…it’s depending on what it is. There are legal things for sure, but in this case, we could have done better. 

W: Okay…should I go next? [Wendy spins] Okay!  Favorite duty station and why? Easy…that was Italy…Caserma Ederle by Vicenza. And that is because my sister and her family live in Italy, so I got to see her all the time. 

S: …And drink the prosecco. 

W: I was going to add the pasta, the prosecco, the cheese, the bread, the oil. . .The 15 pounds. 

A: I was going to say that I went over there with my husband after he retired from the military…with the business he was doing over there. So I was out on my own while he was working all day and…I mean…I got on the boats and went from port to port to port. I didn’t even know where I was. 

W: You were in Italy, and that is all that matters because someone will bring you more bread and pasta. 

A: Okay…so it’s my turn. Let’s see… [Amy spins] …Okay… So, what was a time when someone in the military came to your rescue?

W: Oh, that’s a good one. 

A: Okay…that’s a good one. So, it was at Fort Campbell, KY. She lived in Tenne…on the Tennessee side of…Michele…she’s a listener of our podcast. I know she’ll remember this. I was getting my master’s degree in education...well…I got a flu shot and it just attacked my body. 

S: Oh nooooo! 

W: Awww

A: I felt like I could move. I was having like a rheumatoid attack where my SED rate was way up high, and then they though I had rheumatoid arthritis. But obviously it was just a reaction to the flu shot. She went with me down with me to Nashville for my doctor’s appointment. I spent most of my days in bed doing my homework and stuff. I had a really hard time dealing with it. This same girl, Michele, when my son was stationed there at Fort Campbell, KY…we were over in Hawaii…and so she invited him over for Thanksgiving

W: Oh man…

A: They kept his stuff over at their house while he was deployed to Afghanistan.  This girl was the epitome of family. Her husband was military too. He retired as a colonel. But this girl would drop her everything for you. 

W: She was a “Wendy!”

A: She was a Wendy Bennett. Thanks, Michele. 

S: Shout out to Michele. 

A: Right…it’s your turn. 

W: We want to know more about you.

S: Oh gosh [Sadie spins] okay…let’s see…what is…number 12…what is the least fun about being a military spouse…or your worst memory? I mean that is kind of obvious…when saying goodbye…and deployments. 

A: Have you ever had a death that you’ve had to deal with…

S: …Oh yes...several…some with the war…some…having to attend memorial services…with families you just don’t know. 

A: It never gets easier. 

S: It never gets easier…and ummm…especially when it’s a death or situation of when someone had died…not in the war. I mean any death is horrible, but if were being honest, there’s suicide issues within the military. 

A: Yep!

W: Yes!

S:   So yeah…these are our families…and you look at these people at work…none of us is a spring chicken. You look at them and say…this could be my kid. That’s probably the hardest. 

W: I agree. 

S: You live in fear. Having said…not living in fear…but having those fears. Having that be reality. 

A: Right. Hard discussions, man! 

S: I didn’t like that one. That was tough. 

W: Alright. [Wendy spins] Shortest duty station and how long? So, our shortest duty station was in Italy, and it was only 18 months. 

A: Ohhhhh!

W: Favorite and shortest. 

S: Awwww!

W: Yeah! 

A: Okay…next one [Amy spins] Okay…okay…longest duty station and how long? 

W: Oh yeah!

A: For me…I’m thinking about this…it has to be Fort Bragg, NC. We were there just under four years??? It had to have been just under four years. I loved it there. 

W: Did you really?

A: I did! A lot of people call it Fayettenam, Fayetteville, NC…

W: Yes, I heard that…

A: But we had a great time there. I think that it was just because of the family we built there…

W: I always thought it would be so pretty there. 

A: Yeah!

W: It’s a shame you can’t combine all the times you were stationed at Fort Rucker, AL because that it probably YOUR longest. Because with your hubs deployments…they were back to back to back…

A: …OHHHHHH…wait! You are right! Because really…

W: I would say continuous time is how that question should be viewed. 

A: Okay because if you think about it, we lived…my son and I lived at Fort Rucker, Alabama…gosh…over a decade…but my husband was stationed at several different duty stations. We decided as a military family to stay in one location. He had tons of friends…we had a good church…what I do… 

W: And their schools…

A: Yes, Enterprise, AL City Schools are just wonderful. 

S: Yep…Enterprise High School graduate right here! 

A: Yes…I’m telling you…phenomenal school district. But if I had to do it all over again, I think it’s better to keep the families together because my son was just such a happy-go-lucky kid…he would have adjusted. 

W: Right, but it’s a decision you decide to make. 

A: So, Fort Bragg, NC was the longest one we were stationed at as a family and then Fort Rucker, Alabama was kind of one where it was a weir situation. Yeah! So, let’s do one more round. 

S: One more round? There are some good questions on here. I’m hoping to get one of these. [Sadie spins] Oh my goodness…this is a tough one. How many PCS moves so far? 

A: Ewwwwww! 

W: Ewwwwwwww!

S: And I should have written it down but... 

W: So, we’ll count as you list them. How about that? 

S: Okay, well…

W: I think you should start from when you were a kid because you said you were an Army brat. Okay Amy, we’ll keep count. 

S: I was born at Fort Rucker, AL…moved to Fort Belvoir…

W: One 

S: Moved to Fort Belvoir, VA…moved to Massachusetts while my dad was stationed in Korea for a year...back to Fort Belvoir…Fort Carson, CO…my dad got out for about a year, so we moved to Texas. 

W: Really?

S: Then he got back in and we moved to Fort Campbell, KY…Fort Leavenworth, KS…ahhhh…Air Force Institute of Technology in Ohio…back to Fort Rucker, AL. 

W: I’ll use my toes.

A: So, I’ll start using my hands. 

W: That’s 10!

S: That’s where I met my husband. Let’s see…then to Newport Naval Base, Rhode Island. 

A: Eleven!

S: That’s when I actually go married. So now we’re talking about when I got married. Fort Drum, NY…ummm…Boise, Idaho…Let’s see…Ramstein, Germany. 

W: Love Ramstein! 

S: Yeah…Schweinfurt, Germany. 

W: Ewwwww!

S: Ahhhh…back to Newport Naval Base, Rhode Island…ahhhhh ha…Sorry this is taking a while!

W: That’s fine. 

S: Fort Wainwright, Alaska…ahhhh…Carlisle, Pennsylvania…here to the Pentagon…so here in the Washington D.C. area…Fort Drum, NY…

A: Let’s keep going…we’re at 20. 

S: Back to Washington D. C., South Korea for a year…and back here to Washington D.C. 

A/W: 23 MOVES!!!!

S: So…

A: Have you ever figured that out before? 

S: No…not really. 

W: You must be a pro at getting your house broken down and set up. 

S: You would think. I’m not attached to things. 

W: Same!

S: You know…it’s the people…not the things…there are a couple little souvenirs that were from special places we’ve been…

A: You’ve got some amazing pictures on your social media. You’ve got those memories. 

S: Yeah…for sure. 

A: Okay, Wendy…you’ve got one more and I’ve got one more. 

W: All right! [Wendy spins] Most embarrassing moment…

S: Ewwwwww!

W: So…ahhh…there’s been a few at balls where you speak to the wrong person and your husband says you shouldn’t be so familiar or something to that effect.  Or…when I was actually in the military…and we will get to this. You will learn a little about this, but I had a little too much grog and fell asleep along the edge of the dance floor. A little embarrassing. I was just a young sergeant…

A: I’m going to have to ask your hubs about this situation…

W: Well he won’t actually know…we weren’t married at the time. 

S: Awwww!

W: That was before Ruffino!

A: Okay…so it’s my turn…let’s see [Amy spins] What is your favorite mandatory fun?

W: [Gasps]…that’s a good one…

A: Hmmmm…This is one where we will all have to have a drink [Sadie’s rule at the beginning of game] I like your rules. I love the balls. 

W: Love the balls. 

S: Absolutely!

A: Take a drink…Cheers!

ALL: Cheers! 

W: Cheers to a ball!

A:  I love the pomp and circumstance of a change or command or change of responsibility. 

ALL: Cheers!

A: And lastly…what about those Hails and Farewells…or those Welcome Ceremonies…or the Welcome Events we go to for the spouses and stuff. 

S: Those are so much fun!

A: Hails and Farewells are so fun guys. 

W: So fun! I think that’s a win-win all the way.

A: That’s a win-win…

W: We couldn’t drink with the 23 moves, but we can drink with this. 

A: That’s right. That’s right…Cheers guys!

ALL: Cheers! 

00:57:45

W: That was fun and insightful! Let’s get to our last section, our random.

 

A: Military language … now I’m not going to say it’s anywhere near as difficult as learning a second language, but it does take a few moves and ceremonies and day to day activities to pick it up.

 

W: For example, let me give you a sentence: When you PCS, make sure you bring a copy of your orders, your ORB or ERB, depending on your rank, decide whether you are going to do a full or partial DITY or have the military do the full move. Then, are you going send your whole baggage on before your household goods and just what should you put in whole baggage if you choose that route?


 A: It’s definitely a lot. Let’s break it down … PCS … that your permanent change of station. Basically, you are moving wherever the Army tells you to move...though sometimes you do get a tiny bit of say...but most of the times you don’t…we never did. 

 

S: No not much…

 

A: We just did what we were told. 

 

W: Exactly!

 

S: We just followed orders…

 

A: Speaking of…

 

S: The orders are just that. They tell where the soldier is going … the unit or location they are going to and the job there they will be filling. If they are going overseas, whether they are authorized to bring their family...a minor detail!

 

W: But important!

 

A: We have our ORB and ERB. That is the soldier’s officer or enlisted records brief. To put it simply, it’s a history of their career... or for our civilian friends…sort of like their resume, right?

 

W: Yep…I would agree. 

 

S: So, a DITY is a do it yourself move. Which you can do completely by yourself or just a part of it. A lot of people like doing it that way, but that will never be me. 

 

A: People make money on that, but they don’t realize that they will be taxed on it. 

 

S: Yes…and the work…I prefer to let the movers come in and pack everything. Like I say…if something doesn’t get packed like I want…like I said…I am not attached to things. I just pack my suitcase and provide lunch and call it a day…

 

W: Yes…a good meal…something that they haven’t had because they eat pizza like 50,000 times.

 

A: …And they get tired of it. 

 

W: So whole baggage is usually only reserved for overseas’ moves. This is where you can opt to send some necessities ahead of time because overseas’ moves can take some time and you can be waiting for your stuff for months. Both of you have moved overseas, so you know.  I’ve never done this, but I can imagine it would be a lifesaver for families with children.

 

S: We could go all day into other moments of mass confusion listening to our spouses, but let’s get to some fun stuff that is uniquely military, the pomp and circumstance of a military ball.

 

W: I just love getting all dressed up like Cinderella, or a Disney princess … seeing the guys and ladies in their dress blues or dress mess. So fun!

 

S: A ball is actually a pretty regimented ceremony and there is meaning behind everything. You start with cocktail hour. 

 

A: I love a cocktail hour. I double fist it. 

 

W: Yes, you got to get them in…but there are drawbacks to that. 

 

S: But you got to make sure phones are off and your girls don’t make you the subject of gossip at the next FRG meeting…or Family Readiness Group. 

 

W: After cocktail hour, where you mingle, connect with old friends and new, and get your formal portrait taken…you know how they always have a theme setup…I always love winter. It’s so pretty when they do the holiday ball...It’s time for the receiving line.

 

A: The notorious receiving line. Again…Double check your girls again…you do not want to embarrass yourself…

 

W: Or your spouse.

 

A: Now you got to set down the double fisted drinks … this is where you shake hands with the senior leaders, the quest speaker…any of the other special guests that’ll be there that night. Bet that won’t be happening anymore...you know the shaking of the hands…

 

W: I wouldn’t be surprised. Maybe we could do elbow bumps…

 

A: Knuckle bumps… 

 

W: I want to knuckle bump some senior leadership. 

 

A: For once...Thank YOU COVID!

 

A: But now your soldier should lead the way and introduce you...I like to just go ahead and introduce myself…maybe I don’t even need an introduction. 

 

W: Why does that not surprise me? 

 

A: For those out there who aren’t military, it’s sort of like a receiving line at a wedding … Just remember that you may have things in common but this isn’t the time nor the place...keep it moving along...just don’t talk to the adjutant or the aide.

 

S: Then everybody finds their table. There is often a giant map out front is always fun and you sometimes find yourself in interesting company. The Army likes to mix it up like that. Then it’s time for the posting of the colors and the national anthem.

 

W: So, everybody stands as the flags, for our country, the state or country the ball is being held in, and for the unit and companies represented there, are brought in. It is completely silent except for the sound of the marching soldiers’ feet.

 

A: Then we have the invocation … you know a prayer for those gathered and those that cannot gather. Oh, and if you left your phone on... I promise it will ring during this time...don’t be that person. 

 

S: Never fails! Now for the toasts. After being directed to charge our glasses and toast to the division, the Army, the commander in chief, the ladies, which is done in a call and response format. Now the last toast is to the fallen soldier.

 

A: Now this toast is very somber and there is no response. It is completely silent as a sign of respect and honor of the fallen soldier that is absent…or I’ve seen it done for the POW or the MIAs. This toast is always done with water.

 

W: Always! 

S: This part of the ceremony is a solemn reminder of the ultimate sacrifice. The price paid by so many soldiers to protect our freedom. Everyone in the room is asked to focus his or her attention on an empty table, set for one, with certain symbolic elements.

 

W: This gets me every time … They will go through each item. We are reminded that the table is reserved to honor the missing/fallen soldier. So, as we say, everything has meaning. The shape, round for everlasting concern for the survivors. A white table cloth, purity of their service. A single red rose in a vase, bloodshed in sacrifice. The rose also represents the faith friends and family keep waiting for the return of missing soldiers if it's a POW. A yellow ribbon, for a missing soldier, is the hope for their return. A slice of lemon to remind of their bitter fate. A pinch of salt, which represent the tears from friends and family. A lit candle, again hope of return. A bible for strength of faith. An inverted glass, they cannot share a toast with us presently. An empty chair representing their absence.

 

A: Now after...everyone quietly takes their seats and dinner service begins, the noise gradually increases as stories are shared…you know…across tables…behind you…off to the sides.

 

W: Everybody gets talking! 

 

A: And you get to go up and go to the bathroom…I usually dart out right away. 

 

S: Well yeah…you don’t want to be the person coming in once the guest speaker is speaking. 

 

W: No, you better be seated all ready. 

 

S: That’s it. After dinner, the guest speaker speaks and I will say that this is when we have to remember our manners. You know…

 

W: … Not be the table that’s chattering in the back. 

 

S: That right…these guests…

 

W: And…Not be the table getting up to go to the bar…

 

S: Yeah…these guest speakers are often people who were former commanders of these units or traveled a long way to come and speak…but anyway…I digress.

 

W: They are usually quite good. They have a lot of fascinating stories. 

 

A: Don’t think that I’m not the one in the back going SHHHHHHHHHH! 

 

W: You would Mrs. Amy! 

 

A: It just irritates me! 

 

S: Yeah! I mean it’s just…

 

W: Respect…

 

S: …respect for these people. And uhhhhh…now…hopefully they keep the speech short. 

 

W: That’s true….

 

S: …because then we have the retiring of the colors, meaning that things will be just as silent as when the flags were brought in, they are now brought out. Now is when the formal portion is over and the party begins. 

 

W: Whoop Whoop! Party time! Some soldiers and spouses getting down. 

 

S: Oh yeah!

 

W: So, this is when the making of the grog happens and it’s a bit different with every unit. A representative of each unit brings something up to add to the punchbowl and some of it … well, makes you question their decision-making abilities is all I’m going to say about that.

 

A: Especially when they are deployed overseas. Your thinking…. 

 

A/W: REALLY?????

 

A: They start off good, wine or some other alcohol, but then I’ve seen gasoline (probably moonshine), salt, (sugar) Motrin for your headache (marshmallows), sand (brown sugar), instant coffee … it gets interesting. There is usually a sampling of the grog...and always always always...it’s usually not deemed quite ready, one more magical ingredient is put in (maybe a leather shoe, a penny, more moonshine) ...They stir it with a nice spoon or an E-tool…

 

W: The trusty E-tool

 

A: The poop tool! But then someone resamples and then declared fit for the masses.

 

W: Everyone lines up with their party favor glass etched with unit insignia and partakes. I remember one sampling though where it was drunk out of a boot (Stetsons, canteens) I have to say, no matter what they put in it, I’m always in line to get my taste, and it’s usually not too bad. What about you guys? Grog drinkers?

 

S: I will usually taste it. 

 

A: Oh no…not me…I’m the bell of the ball…keeper of the tap. I love a good grog!

 

W: We could monitor the next ball. We could flank the sides of the grog bowl. 

 

A: Let’s crash a ball. 

 

W: Let’s crash a ball! 

 

A: Your husband is still in the military…Mine isn’t…but we still go to balls…we’re invited periodically. 

 

S: So girls, then it’s time for dancing and the service members take off their jackets to display their colorfully decorated shirts and the party really kicks off. I love just love going to the ball!

 

W: Same…I love when they take their jackets off because they usually have a shirt from some deployment. It looks all buttoned up. You have your nice white collar and white cuffs…but take it off and it’s a party. 

 

A: Well a lot of time…I think they get those shirts in Korea, right? They are called party shirts. 

 

S: We had a few made for my husband…even for my sons for my daughter’s wedding. 

 

W: Gotta have a party shirt. 

 

A: Gotta have a party shirt. I mean it’s a really fun time and you get to catch up with so many friends. Well, anything else to add?

 

W: That was fun. I miss a ball. 

 

S: I wonder how long it’s going to be until we have grog again after COVID?

 

W: I know. We could always make a grog on the podcast. 

 

S: Hmmmm!

 

A: Oh, we should do that. That would be like a bonus round. 

 

W: That would be like a bonus. We will bring you back Sadie. We’ll make our own grog. 

 

A: Right!

 

S: Sounds good. 

 

A: I just loved this book though, didn’t you guy?  

 

W: I love it so much. I am so glad you found it. It was a great read! And Sadie…thank you so much for joining us, this was so much fun!   

 

A: We also want to thank Sarah from Sarah’s Bookshelves Live. We’ve got to thank fellow podcasters…I listen to a lot of their recommendations…ahhh... 

 

W: …And then you bring them back to us and say this is what we’re doing. 

 

A: Absolutely. We need to reach out to her to let her know we did this podcast. 

 

S: And for having Ms. Gibson on her podcast, too. And thank you to her [Ms. Gibson] for writing such a great book. 

 

W: Exactly!

 

01:10:43

 

S: You know you guys…this has been such a treat for me, combining my favorite elements… a good book, a fun podcast, reminiscing about military life, and spending time with good friends and fellow Army wives! Not to mention, the bubbly!

 

W: See we can do some reminiscing. We don’t need to be…old grads…we can just be some old Army wives. 

 

S: Right! We’ve got our own stories. 

 

A: Yes, and we’ve got to thank Sadie for coming.

 

W: Yes!

 

A: I mean…we truly could not have done this episode without you.  You’re a natural. 

 

S: Yeah!

 

W: Yep!

 

A: A special shout out to Heather, a West Point graduate, vet and fellow book club member. We appreciate you for taking time out your afternoon to give us some West Point insight. Now I think that just about covers everyone.  Our next episode, in two weeks, will be a short story, “Luck” by Mark Twain. It’s our part two of two where we will continue honoring our military vets.