Prosecco N Prose | A Book Club
Prosecco N Prose is a monthly virtual book club where literary analysis meets liquid courage. Former English teachers Wendy and Amy sip Prosecco (or something of the like), spill opinions, and gleefully overanalyze the books you love (and love to hate). Expect deep dives, hot takes, tangents, and a healthy disregard for “assigned reading rules.” We talk books, book clubs, and whatever else pops up in the glass. Requests encouraged. Judgement not included.
Prosecco N Prose | A Book Club
Casey McQuiston - Red, White & Royal Blue
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Join Wendy and Amy for a royally good time as they discuss Casey McQuiston's novel Red, White & Royal Blue. Love is the theme and untangling the meaning of some British and Texas phrases is the game. Keys, rings, and flags round out the bubbly banter. Pop a cork to love!
Next Episode's short story: "Ugly" by Mary Gordon
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Prosecco N Prose | Season 2 | Episode 16 | Red, White, & Royal Blue by Casey McQuiston
Co-Hosts: Wendy (W) | Amy (A)
January 20, 2021
Introduction of Bubbly, Prose, and Podcast – 00:00:00
Happy Inauguration Day | Albino Armani Tasting – 00:00:47
Albino Armani Link
Vivino Link
Jaffa Cakes Link
Pim's Cakes Link
Proseccogate – 00:06:00
Author and Book Information – 00:10:56
Main Character Introduction – 00:12:10
Brief Summary with Spoilers – 00:13:10
Handful of Hyperbole
1) Theme of Love is Indomitable/Enemies to Lovers –00:15:50
2) Symbols – Alex’s Key and Henry’s Signet ring – 00:18:10
3) Voodoo Name Book – Alex and Henry – 00:19:19
4) Game – What does that British or Texas saying mean? – 00:20:49
5) Random – Flags: Old Glory and Union Jack – 00:26:07
US Flag Link 1
US Flag Link 2
UK Flag Link 1
UK Flag Link 2
Closing and Outro – 00:36:42
Next Episode’s Literature Link: “Ugly” by Mary Gordon
TRANSCRIPT:
00:00:00
Amy (A:) Welcome to Prosecco and Prose Episode 16.
Wendy (W:) This week’s prosecco is Albino Armani.
A: This week’s prose is Red, White, & Royal Blue by Casey McQuiston.
* * * intro * * *
00:00:47
W: I have been so looking forward to this book, the reading and discussing. So many good things out there about it.
A: The book is all over Instagram! And what about this prosecco? Let me tell you, I love this label! It looks so chic. It’s really elegant with the silver writing on the gray-blue background. Seems a perfect visual, at least, for this novel.
W: I agree. It’s really pretty. You definitely pick some good ones. So, let’s talk about it.
A: Sure thing! It’s a DOC, obviously the most common … 11% alcohol … it’s extra dry so again between a dry, which is sweeter, and a brut, the driest. It’s a 3.8 on our trusty Vivino app.
W: Not too shabby. You wine and prosecco lovers need to download this app, it will save you from ever buying crappy wine again.
A: Definitely! Now this one is a little bit pricier than our usual at $15 a bottle, but let’s see what our tasting adds to that.
W: Fifteen dollars a bottle is really “splashing out” for us, but let me quickly say this from the label. “Fresh and vibrant with tiny bubbles, this wine has a nose of white flowers, peaches, and pears that follow through the palate before concluding with an elegant finish.”
A: The label is certainly elegant.
W: I agree. It’s pretty. Says it is ideal as an aperitif or served with prosciutto, stuffed mushrooms or sole in a cream sauce. That all sounds yum to me!
A: Simply scrummy! I also found that its bit of sweetness allows it to pair well with the not-too-sweet desserts like almond cookies or panettone, which is like a sweet bread cake enjoyed in Italy around Christmas and New Year.
W: I love panettone with chocolate. It might go pretty good with our Jaffa cakes, or should I say pseudo-Jaffe cakes?
A: It might. But also, quiche, frittata, or simple fish dishes go well with this bubbly. It’s so versatile.
W: You know, I think you and I can make an argument that prosecco can pretty much go with everything.
A: I think we can. Shall we get to the fun part?
W: I’m on it. So, it’s this really pretty light golden color.
A: The color is quite lovely. And not a ton of bubbles in this one either.
W: That should keep us from getting so burpy.
A: Maybe help us be a little “more classy.”
W: We might need a bit more help than that.
A: I only speak for myself, but you’re probably right. Definitely can smell the...so I can smell…sort of yeasty again…uhm…the smell in the beginning is kind of yeasty and then it kind of blends into a floral.
W: I totally got the floral. I don’t usually pick up the yeast like you do.
A: I love me some bread, so I can smell some yeast.
W: I love bread too, but I do get the floral on the nose. Tasting time?
A: Hmmmm! Now there’s a bit going on here. Let me see. I’m getting a very zesty lemony flavor. You know it’s really acidic on my tongue. Uhm, a little bit of honey maybe?
W: Yeah, there is kind of a lot going on and a lot of good is my take. I pick up pear…uhm, I pick up some honey as well, but I also…there is also green apple or something.
A: And see I normally pick up the green apple, but I didn’t this time. I think it’s because…it’s so zesty; it’s so acidic on my tongue.
W: Yeah! I wonder what the bubbles have to do with that. You don’t really see them but you kind of feel them.
A: And I haven’t had prosecco since Christmas. Can you believe it?
W: Yeah…I don’t know if we can be partners.
A: I mean I really had to take a break.
W: [Wendy laughing in awe]
A: You know how easy it is to lose five pounds when you don’t drink prosecco?
W: Well, I guess I’m keeping mine then because I like prosecco.
A: I have had to really pick up my Orange Theory.
W: [Wendy chuckling]
A: So, I want to try it with these little cakes here that I purchased. I mean I looked all over the D.C. Metro area for Jaffa cakes but I found these things called Pim’s cakes. And, they look just like Jaffa cakes, but I picked out the orange and raspberry.
W: Well, I am going to say that raspberry sounds delicious, and they do look just like the Jaffa cakes.
A: I agree. Now orange is more traditional, but going down a rabbit hole, I learned that the main flavoring in the jam layer is actually supposed to be apricot.
W: Hmmm … I wonder if we will be able to tell that, you know with our superior taste buds now that we know?
A: Uhm hmmm…Well, these are the next best thing, Pim’s may just use orange jam instead of the apricot, so …
W: [interrupts] Good point. We should probably just try and see what our sophisticated taste buds think.
A: Okay on this side…I think I picked the raspberry…[cake snaps when bitten into] Oh these are good.
W: They’re very good.
A: I love the raspberry.
W: Yeah, the raspberry is delicious.
A: Let me try the orange.
W: Don’t you just love the crack of the chocolate?
A: Ummmmm those are good. Oh my gosh! The orange is really good. Alone or with the prosecco. They’re both…they’re good.
W: They’re delicious. I mean they’re awesome with the prosecco. I’m kind of surprised because you just don’t think of sweet with prosecco.
A: But they’re [cakes] not so sweet.
W: They’re not!
A: They’re European sweet. That’s what I call it.
W: I like the crack of chocolate when you bite into it.
A: Yeah.
W: That’s yummy. I’m going to say, though, that I like the raspberry ones better.
A: I’m going to say that I’m partial to the orange ones.
W: Those were good too. Actually, these are not too bad.
A: I mean I’m always game to try something new.
W: Especially if you have good prosecco to wash it down with.
A: I’ll even go as far as settling for mediocre prosecco, which fortunately we haven’t had too much of.
W: We have been fortunate. Author bio time?
00:06:00
A: Not so fast …
W: Hmmm?
A: Remember Cakegate in the novel?
W: Yes …How could I not?
A: I thought we might do a little thing called Proseccogate.
W: You are going to drag me down into a case of prosecco?
A: No, but that’s not a bad idea for future episodes.
W: Great!
A: I have a little something-something for you. Since you are getting so good at recognizing colors, flavors, aromas of our bubbly, I am going to give you a blind taste test of today’s version and our trusty ole purple bottle of Asolo to see if you can pick out which one is which.
W: Lovely! No pressure after all that.
A: None at all, but I will throw in, if you guess right you get to wear this lovely crown I made today.
W: Wow!
A: If not I get to adorn the winning family jewels on my head.
W: [Wendy laughing] The family jewels?
A: [Amy laughing] I wondered if you’d catch onto that.
W: Anyways, as you were…
A: But it’ll just take a prosecco since you are really THAT GOOD at tasting...far better than I.
W: Okay so do you want me to turn around as you pour?
A: Sure! [Amy pouring prosecco in background]
W: Okay everybody, here we go again with “play a trick on Wendy” to see if we can stump the Prosecco Queen. But I don’t want to say prosecco queen, maybe a prosecco lush. You know, I introduced you to prosecco initially!
A: I know you did and I’ll be forever grateful to you, your highness … or lusciousness; I’ve been known to be very accommodating. Just ask Josh!
W: [Wendy laughing] So what do you want me to do?
A: Okay! Easy-peasy! I’ve poured a taste of each, the Asolo and the Albino Armani in Gramma Sue’s prosecco glasses, and I’ve marked which is which with a blue and red sticker...of course so I don’t get mixed up.
W: Because we all know that’s too easy for you to do!
A: Right! So, clear your palate and then taste this first one.
W: Okay well…I’m just going to look at them first as the color is different. And so just by the color already, if I may start, I feel like the left one is already the Asolo.
A: Okay!
W: I’m going to taste.
A: And which color is the…which is the left one? I put that sticker on the front, so I can’t see it.
W: Blue!
A: Okay! How about cleansing your palate with Henry’s favorite Jaffe cake? I mean the pseudo-Jaffe before the second one?
W: You know, I think…I think I’d like to taste them back-to-back, first.
A: Proceed…
W: Hmmmm! Hold on, let me try it again. You’re trying to trip me up.
A: They way she is standing…it’s so annoying…she’s looking like a very posh sommelier.
W: So, by color [blue], I would say the Asolo, and then by smell, I would say the red one is todays. And by taste, I’m going to stand by that. But I do think that you kind of gave me an advantage because we just had today’s…
A: [interrupting] I mean do you need any hints? Not that I would give you one anyway.
W: No! I think my emerging sommelier tongue says the red one is Albino Armani, and the blue one is Asolo. Am I correct?
A: Unfortunately, you are!
W: Unfortunately…you mean I get the…get the family jewels?
A: [laughing uncontrollably] I am so impressed with your skills. You complete me, Wendy.
W: So, I have to tell you. To be honest, I’m kind of impressed myself. I didn’t think that I’d be able to get that, but that was really fun actually, not that most things you cook up aren't fun. I’m just kind of thinking that my prosecco knowledge may not need as much work as I thought.
A: You have skills and so do I!
W: Yes. But Amy, we must move on, as the Queen and Madame President don’t wait on fools. How did you come up with this? Or need I ask?
A: Well, I always have a reason for my madness, and you know me. I wanted two bottles for this episode to test my father’s mishap I found on his phone over the holiday when looking at his Spotify account.
W: Oh, I know where you are going with this. I remember you saying this...because didn’t you say over the holiday that your dad…he’d changed the listening speed or something…we didn’t even know you could do that, right…by accident and said we sounded tired when we were talking?
A: More like tipsy.
W: Yeah tipsy…a little sloshed.
A: But all of this for that. So, dad...if you think we sound tired today, and we clearly are not...
W: No!
A: Notice I changed my speed! Or if you think we are a bit snookered and talking very slowly [Amy changing her talking speed].
W: We’re going to confuse people.
A: Check your speed as 0.8 is not an ideal listening speed for this podcast.
W: That would be fun if we could speed things up and slow them down.
A: So fun.
W: Oh boy...I’d hate to be in the middle of your Royal Family Squabbles, though I’m going to say that if drinking prosecco is the solution, maybe it’s not so terribly bad? And Amy’s dad...kindly check your speed...and cheers to us not getting too sozzled until after the episode.
A: My dad is such a hoot.
W: Sounds like it.
A: But I am loving you in that crown.
W: I know, it’s quite nice, right?
A: Now we can talk about our fabulous author.
W: I’m loving wearing it first. I’m just going to add that.
A: We’ll take pictures, guys. It’s not what you’re thinking.
00:10:56
W: It’s better probably. Yes, I think it’s definitely time. Casey McQuiston was born and raised in Louisiana and now lives in New York City with their dog Pepper. Red, White & Royal Blue is their New York Times bestselling debut novel.
A: What a way to debut! I thoroughly enjoyed this novel and will be reading anything they put out in the future.
W: I agree, can definitely understand the hype behind it. In an interview I found on SheReads, McQuiston hoped the take-aways for the novel were for people to feel energized and excited to work to make the world better; that love is indomitable; and on a meta level, for people to see that queer romcoms for adults can work and find an audience.
A: I had found that one of their favorite books was Oscar Wilde’s The Importance of Being Earnest.
W: I love that one.
A: I know you do! They said reading it as a teen hardwired their brain to write banter, and oh did I love the banter in this book.
W: I know you told me all…scrolls of text guys, scrolls of text…
A: I couldn’t wait for her to read it, guys. I read it over the holiday, and I just wanted to tell her spoilers.
W: She was very good; she didn’t. It was really…the banter was so good. And even more fun, you know were going to see this…Amazon Studios has bought the rights to make it into a film! Let’s introduce some of those characters behind the banter. Characters, Amy?
00:12:10
A: Oh, so many characters in this book, and we will very briefly give you the key ones here. So we have Alex Claremont-Diaz is the 21-year-old First son. By the way, if I may tangent a moment?
W: Could I stop you?
A: Probably not, but did you know that until Barron, there hadn’t been a son in the White House in more than half a century. Not since JFK Jr.
W: I did not know that, but now that I think about it, there have been a lot of First Daughters, which leads us to June Claremont-Diaz, Alex’s older sister.
A: Now Might I introduce you to Ellen Claremont....the first female President, a democrat from Texas. Yeeeehawww!
W: Of course! [laughing] And bringing in our royal contingent, Henry Fox-Mountchristen-Windsor, the 23-year-old Prince of Wales.
A: Now don’t forget the final member of our White House Trio, with Alex and June, I give you Nora, the granddaughter of the Vice President of the United States. Summary, yes? Ready?
00:13:10
W: Ready! And you know the deal, if you don’t like spoilers, just know the prosecco made us do it. We do have two today. So as the story opens, the first female President, and her family, are up for re-election in 2020.
A: It was a little surreal reading sometimes since it was published in 2019 and especially knowing it was written before the actual 2020 election.
W: I agree, it kind of was. Just some of the things that happened.
A: I was actually sweating some of the time.
W: I know. I was like wait a minute. How did she know this? I actually went back and checked the publication date, because I thought this is impossible
A: I did, too!
W: Now the First family has been invited to a royal wedding and First Son, Alex, has had a beef with Prince Henry, the youngest son in the royal family, going way back to the Rio Olympics.
A: Well, at the royal wedding, Alex drunkenly approaches the prince…
W: … never the best idea.
A: Not ever. But Alex decides to confront Henry over how he danced with his sister June...not showing her the proper attention. You know guys, brothers stand up for their sisters if they perceive they are being disrespected. But his chivalrous act lands him and Henry in a $75,000 pile of cake and buttercream frosting.
W: Not good at all.
A: Unless you’re my dad. He loves butter cream frosting.
W: I could pass. Cake! I’ll take the cake! Now, the two young men, Alex and Henry, must begin Operation Restore Diplomatic and Public Relations, and they publicly forge this image of a close friendship.
A: But we all know hate is an emotion not so far from love and the two start to develop a very genuine friendship.
W: Which then leads to a very genuine love … but given their public families and it being an election year, they must keep it quiet.
A: Much of the story is the telling of how Alex and Henry fall in love. They try to keep it secret in order not to cause issues with each of the respective families.
W: Until their relationship is leaked, and they have to decide whether to deny and save face for those around them, or acknowledge and face the potential repercussions, but also the freedom to live in their truth. It is a quick-paced read and little side stories about the election and character backstories keep it engaging. I know I thoroughly enjoyed it.
A: I did as well. Even down to how they address each other in the emails. I just loved how Alex saved the prince’s name in his phone and it found its way in every TO Line of text and email: HRH Prince Dickhead Poop emoji.
W: [Wendy laughing] I know.
A: It was so funny. I encourage anyone who wants a royal treat to listen to the audible version read by Ramon de Ocampo. Are you ready for some theme talk?
00:15:50
W: I’m always ready for that, and if I may kick this off, I felt one of McQuiston’s take-aways, love is indomitable, is a great theme.
A: Well, this is a love story, and who doesn’t want love to win?
W: I know and one other thing; we have a pretty common trope here, which I’m not complaining about, I’m not—the enemies to lovers.
A: There was just such a huge misunderstanding between them in the beginning because wasn’t it that Alex felt that Henry was just so condescending you know and dismissive of Alex the first time they met at the Rio Olympics?
W: He was; but we later learn the reason for Henry’s perceived coldness when Alex and Henry become closer.
A: Henry had a lot of bitterness. I mean he had just lost his father. He’s the spare heir. He has to hide his true self, and he has to do it all in public, but with many more constraints than you know Alex has.
W: Very true … it also probably looked like Alex was quite loved and free to love. Even the public loved Alex. Remember he was the most popular. Henry is you know metaphorically locked in a box.
A: But Alex, in his be-in-the-moment, or living-off-the-cuff lifestyle, unlocked something in Henry and it was beautiful. I want to visit this in symbols.
W: Oh for sure. Henry truly didn’t think someone could love him for him, or even if they did, then understand, to some degree, his world and agree to be in it.
A: But he didn’t even think love, as a gay man, could even remotely be mentioned, much less accepted.
W: But Alex was not intending to fall in love, though, remember?
A: I do, but they really were destined … I mean, they started off as enemies.
W: That is true. It was their love that gave them the strength and courage to stand together in their truth and face the world.
A: Aww Love. Now I would like to briefly touch on something. I mean I really liked how McQuiston portrayed Alex and Henry’s physical relationship.
W: I agree. It was very realistic. I mean when you are in the first blush of love, oftentimes it is very physical, and I think if McQuiston had left that out, that just wouldn’t have been realistic.
A: But I have to tell you, Wendy. The intimacy between them was a very important part of their love story, but it never went to Harlequin romance territory. I’m not into that type of reading.
W: Nope. Neither am I, Amy. McQuiston handled it beautifully. Symbols?
00:18:10
A: My favorite. So Alex wears the key to the family home in Texas. A key symbolizes heart and home and Alex wears this key on a chain around his neck close to his heart. It really keeps him grounded. It serves as a reminder of where he came from...his roots...it’s always a part of him.
W: A key unlocks things. It gives the bearer access to things those who don’t have a key cannot access.
A: Right! It’s a privileged access. Both young men are giving each other access to their hearts.
W: And then on the other hand, Henry’s signet ring.
A: No pun intended?
W: No! Never!
A: But it's Henry’s personal token of his heart and home.
W: It really is. Now a signet ring isn’t always initials, it can also be a meaningful symbol or family crest, but they go back as far as 3500 BC and they were considered as reliable as a signature as most men were illiterate.
A: It was a gentleman’s most prized possession, with the exception of the family jewels. But for Henry, it was almost like a handcuff.
W: Wow! But yes. And so, when he gives it to Alex, he’s finally free.
A: So deep. Pun intended!
00:19:19
W: Alrighty then. Voodoo name time! Subject change. Tell us what you dug up on our two favorite boys.
A: Okay … an Alex is sensitive and puts up barriers to all but his closest friends.
W: I can see that about Alex. Even though he lives quite publicly on social media, he is actually quite guarded.
A: Yes. Now Alexes are ruled by the heart …
W: … which he desperately fought against in the case of Henry. It was something he kept telling himself, that it was just fun, not serious.
A: Right. He is concerned with peace, harmony, and proper human relationships, and his name carries an energy of grace, tolerance, and kindness. And one last thing, Alexes use their talents and skills in helpful and unselfish projects. Now in the beginning, it did seem like he was mostly focused on his own future political career, but by the end of the book, he definitely was looking for ways to use his voice and power to help others.
W: Oh definitely. Now what about Henry?
A: So, Henry means home and power.
W: That’s a bit interesting.
A: Yes … it’s a bit of a complex name in that it suggests a conflict within the personality.
W: Well … um, yeah.
A: I know. A Henry's biggest obstacle is self-doubt, but they are very intellectual and artistic gentlemen. They are also humanitarians and enjoy helping others.
W: Aww … they really are a perfect match!
A: I think so. Let’s top off, adjust your crown and play our game for the day. And the name of the game that Wendy came up with is “What does that saying mean?”
00:20:49
W: Oh, I am ready for this! So, here’s what we are going to do. We each found some British and Texas sayings, and we are going to see if we can guess what they mean.
A: And you know we cannot leave out our freshly poured prosecco, so if you get it right, you get to celebrate with a sip of bubbly, but if you get it wrong, the other gets to celebrate her superior knowledge. You’re such a brat!
W: I like that! Okay … I’ll go first. I’m going to start with a Texas phrase … We’ve howdy-ed, but we ain’t shook.
A: You are Texas! You guys were stationed there, weren’t you?
W: Yeah! We were!
A: But I have never heard of that one, so I’m assuming maybe it’s a one-night stand with a relative unknown?
W: Well, I am going to adjust my crown. Let me just enjoy my superior knowledge and this prosecco.
A: I was just trying to be funny. I didn’t know what it meant, but I had to say something.
W: It means “We’ve met, but not been formally introduced.”
A: I’m going to have to remember this one. So, I’m going to start off with a British phrase.
W: Okay.
A: I wasn’t sure about your superior directions. You know your scrolls were one night after you and Ruffino had had a couple bottles of prosecco…
W: Possibly!
A: …So I made up my own sentence for you to dissect with British lingo...Okay… [horrific British accent] “Hey Wendy...you have a crusty dragon.”
W: Please tell me this isn’t a poop joke, and your way of telling me I have a dingleberry.
A: Well, let me enjoy my superior knowledge and prosecco, and give you a little tissue because you have a dried booger hanging off of your nose.
W: Wow. So specific and way to go the whole podcast without telling me. Sheese.
A: There’s a box right off to your left.
W: Now I’m all self-conscious.
A: It was a big crusty dragon, guys.
W: Let me just pick it.
A: It had feet. Just kidding. She gave me the middle finger…come on! Let’s move on!
W: So, here’s another Texas one for you … “He’s all hat and no cattle.”
A: Hmmm...Condom joke?
W: Amy! Come on, you know your Dad’s listening at .8.
A: Okay, okay …sorry dad, but I have no clue. I kind of like it though. So, lay it on me John Thomas.
W: Let me again take a very superior sip. It means someone is pretentious. Big and boastful. Someone pretty full of themselves.
A: I know a few of those, but since we were speaking of Texas and everything is bigger in Texas, I found one that you will never guess.
W: Okay.
A: Okay! “You know me, Wendy! I am happy as a dead pig in the sunshine.”
W: I can’t imagine what a dead pig in sunshine could possibly be happy about, except maybe their pungent smell, so I think you’re just going to have to tell me.
A: Hold on while I get a Big Superior slosh and Ridem cowboy! So, you know how I always have a smile on my face and no one, except for you, knows when I am down and out. The expression means a person who smiles away when in reality things aren’t going so hot. It comes from what happens when a dead pig’s body lies out in the sunshine. You know…the lips begin to pull back from its teeth, creating the illusion of a wide grin. Your face is telling a story man!
W: That is absolutely disgusting. And thank you so much for that visual.
A: I wish I could take a picture of your face right now.
W: But it does ring true of you. Not the disgusting pig part, but the smiling in the face of adversity, yes. Now, I’m going to need a drink just because of that visual. I’ve got one…I’ve got a British one for you … I’m going to have a “bubble and squeak.” I know that’s a terrible accent, but I’m not British.
A: [laughing] Wow! I never thought I’d hear a poop joke from your posh mouth. Hmmmmm! After drinking all this prosecco I’m getting a little pissed, which is just another word for drunk in UK talk. But bubble and squeak? Might you be talking a shart?
W: Oh my goodness … no … I’m not the bearer of poop jokes, as you said yourself … as soon as I celebrate my superiority—a bubble and squeak is an old English breakfast dish made from frying up leftover greens and potatoes.
A: It’s safe to say I did not know that. But I think we need to hurry up with this and let me finish with one last British phrase. Ready?
W: Okay!
A: I’m feeling as I may need to spend a penny or it could just be a puff.
W: So, I thought puff was like a fart, but the penny part makes no sense, and you haven’t done a poop joke yet, which would be unheard of. So, is it some kind of reference to using the bathroom or something?
A: You are superior and you are the Queen of this game as it means I have to go to the loo; however, it might just be a fart.
W: Oh my gosh!
A: I just had to say that. I don’t need to fart. I promise you.
W: Please don’t! Small studio, though.
A: You know me though; I don’t take chances especially after eating a bubble and a squeak. But I guess you get to keep the crown.
00:26:07
W: But, I’m ready for random. I know you did something with flags.
A: I thought that it would be fun to incorporate a discussion on the flags of the US and UK as they are both red, white, and blue. Seemed like a fun way to celebrate the ending of this episode and our Inauguration Day.
W: I couldn’t agree more. I’m curious though; since England is now no longer a part of the EU, will they have a new flag? You know the whole point of the US flag was to show separation from Great Britain. Life is so cyclical, isn’t it?
A: It is and nice parallel, Wendy. But there are talks in place regarding a new flag…there wasn’t a lot of info out yet on the Googlewebs, but I would love to learn more in the future.
W: Hey…Maybe we could help the UK design their flag…I can envision cross flutes, a prosecco bottle superimposed on top on a set of crystal, and a crest of cheese…
A: …or Jaffa cakes…
W: …a book, or Jaffa cakes…With my new tile making skills, I think I may apply for this job.
A: Okay Wendy! Your new flag idea sounds more Italian than English though.
W: Your right, but it was a thought. So, what did you find?
A: I thought that I would start with our U.S. flag.
W: You mean Old Glory? Old Glory was the official name of the first American flag approved by the Continental Congress in 1777. Just a little fun fact I recall from my elementary teaching days. Let me adjust my crown. Oh, and don’t forget about Flag Day being June 14th.
A: You know that is totally remarkable!
W: You sound impressed.
A: You are getting a little ahead of me, but I am impressed with your knowledge and more so your memory. You had to be one of those just really annoying students, but really great teachers. So, Ms. Smarty-flag-pants, do you remember who sewed the first American flag?
W: Actually, I do! Smarty-flag-pants? You were just waiting to use that, weren’t you?
A: Uhm hum!
W: But it was none other than Betsy Ross.
A: Right.
W: Although now I might feel like this could be a trick question. And…I think they called it upholstered rather than sewed.
A: Yes, she was the first one to sew the original flag...I mean upholster, such an old term, but did you know that there was some controversy that one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence may have had a hand in the design?
W: I do recall reading something about that.
A: Well apparently, Francis Hopkinson is recognized as the designer of the flag. There is documentation of a letter written to the Continental Board of Admiralty mentioning several of his designs. However, there is no specific documentation on the final bill showing that he was the OG flag maker—only a previous note that he’d take a quarter cask of public wine as compensation. He was turned down for an individual cask as obviously other names were involved in the making.
W: Sounds like he was a gentleman after our own hearts with the wine…but that’s not cool to try to take credit for a group effort.
A: Wendy, we’ve all been a part of group projects like that in school, haven’t we?
W: Too many to list.
A: So, we could go a whole episode on fun flag facts. Now I know why Sheldon Cooper was so intrigued with flags in the Big Bang Theory…but thought I’d just cover a few of the biggies and then list the links I found in the show notes.
W: Sounds good.
A: Okay…so obviously we’ve all learned in our early social studies lessons that there were several changes to the American flag as the US grew in size. Each white star on the blue field or canton represented a state.
W: Can I interrupt?
A: Thanks for asking and yes please do…
W: Did you know that in some of the flag designs in the past had six-pointed stars rather than the current five?
A: Yes…I even read that George Washington had sketched six-pointed stars, but the five-pointed ones were easier to sew or upholster as you would say. Now if you look close at previous flags you can see the six-pointed stars. The last star our Nation had sewn on its flag was in 1960 when Hawaii was added as a state…hmmm…I wonder if that’s going to change again in the future? You know Washington D.C.? Maybe?
W: Puerto Rico!
A: Right! Right, right! Also, the current flag is the 27th US flag since 1777.
W: Something I didn’t know about the US flag. I know you feel very superior now. Continue!
A: [Amy chuckling] And we all thought you were on it like a car bonnet…
W: I am!
A: Now the 13 alternating red and white stripes—seven red and six white—represent the original 13 colonies; however, we added two stripes when we added Vermont and Kentucky, right?
W: Uhm hmmm!
A: I’d also like to share that we added two additional stars in the blue canton to represent those two states. Now Wendy, do you know what that flag was called?
W: I actually do…
A: Geh! I knew you would…
W: It was the Star-Spangled Banner and Francis Scott Key was inspired to write our American anthem with this flag.
A: Nice…now they did vote on it again reducing the stripes to the original thirteen but continued to add stars as states were added. Can you imagine how the flag would look if they continued to add the stripes?
W: Yeah. Not as appealing to what we have now. And it would be huge. 50 stripes???
A: It would look like one of those mile-high layer cakes that have like a million thin layers...maybe like the $75,000 cake for the Royal Wedding. Now I’ll touch on the color symbiology when we discuss the color of the UK flag for time purposes as both countries are similar.
W: Looking forward to hearing about the UK's flag, and no I don’t have any fun fact knowledge I can recall yet on this one for you.
A: So, the UK flag is a compilation of three different flags. Any guesses on the three, Wendy?
W: Well, in the spirit of not breaking my silence, I’ll say carry on!
A: Of course, you would but okay [laughing]. So, the three countries include: England, Scotland, and North Ireland. The British flag is known as the Union Jack or the Union Flag. There is a long history of these countries uniting and bringing along their flags that cover over a 200-year span. It’s like hey let me see how many flags we can superimpose on top of each other. I do love the name though—Union Jack!
W: Isn’t a jack flag the front flag of the ship? I know it’s an old-school term, but I remember that from some of my past reading and Ruffino knows a lot about boats.
A: Yes! Lots of controversy as to how it got the name Union Jack…clothing, names like Jack, John, Jacobi, and of course flag locations on ships.
W: Interesting.
A: So, let me build you a red, white and blue picture as to how we got to this beauty—the Union Jack.
W: So interesting…
A: The bottom layer of the Union Jack is a white background with a red horizontal and vertical cross…sort of like drawing a big “T.” This flag had been the Kingdom of England’s flag since medieval times, and honored the patron saint of England, St. George.
W: Got it.
A: Okay next layer is the flag of Scotland. Now remember from history, Queen Elizabeth I of England died leaving no heirs to the throne, so her Cousin King James VI of Scotland came to rule and hence changed his title to King James I. Scotland officially joined the Kingdom of England in the 1600s.
W: Now called Great Britain at this point, right?
A: Yes…So, Scotland’s flag had a light blue background with a diagonal white cross…Now picture an “X”…
W: Right…we had a “T” and now an “X.”
A: Right. This cross is known as the Saint Andrew cross…the Scottish flag was called the St. Andrew’s Saltire…you combine them together, darken the blue, and you have what they call the Loyalist flag. It became official about 100 years later under the rule of Queen Anne.
W: Following…
A: Great, so lastly you bring in Northern Ireland’s flag in 1800—known as the St. Patrick’s Saltire. The flag of Ireland is a white background with a thin diagonal red cross—again picture an “X”—It was made official by George III in 1801 and Wala, you have your Union Jack!
W: That’s a lot to follow but very interesting. And I actually like as you were laying the crosses, I could picture it. Now you told me about the meanings of the flag colors in our scrolls, so I can help you out here if you’d like.
A: Oh yes please, go ahead as I need some water after all that banter.
W: You mean prosecco?
A: No at this point in the taping, I need some good ole H2O!
W: Okay…so you know how we love color symbolism and am just going to combine the red, white, and blue together with both flags as to save time.
A: Sounds perfect.
W: So, both the US and UK’s red represents strength and valor. I did some additional research and found that UK’s flag also represents bravery, military strength, martyrdom, and warriorhood. But the consensus on color for the most part encompasses both countries as strength and valor.
A: So much info out there, right?
W: Yes! You know how we go down all kinds of rabbit holes. Now the white in the UK flag symbolizes purity, truth/honesty, innocence, and peace. The US white shared the innocence and purity aspect.
A: The US does go with the less-is-more-approach, and the UK has had more time to think.
W: Yes, they have! Now the blue for the UK represents loyalty, faith, honestly, power, vigilance, justice, and perseverance. The US joins them in this thinking in using vigilance and perseverance and then adds justice as the outlier.
A: This is some great info and maybe we should start a flag podcast.
W: No!
A: I did some research and there are literally no podcasts talking about foreign flags and…
W: …I’m going to cut you off right here as it’s time to go. And there is no more time in our schedules to research flags. Okay, Amy? We will leave that up to our listeners who are looking for their own podcast to start this year.
A: It was just a thought, and I do have one more random, if I may. It won’t take long.
W: You may. But hurry, as I need to spend a penny after all this prosecco.
A: Okay, okay! So, remember when Alex had the turkeys stay in his room because he was so upset about the government waste of putting them up in a 5-star hotel?
W: I do! Wait, is that something that is actually done?
A: Yes! These turkeys, before they are pardoned, stay in the Willard Hotel, which is a D.C. landmark.
W: What? That’s crazy. What a waste. They are only turkeys. You’d think there would be some back yard they could hang out for the night, like maybe the White House.
A: Nope. Corn and Cob got a night of luxury for Thanksgiving 2020.
00:36:42
W: Well, I think I want to be a pardoned turkey. And I think that’s going to be a wrap for this episode.
A: Speaking of wraps…Don’t ever...I mean ever wrap yourself in a US flag. It’s considered really disrespectful.
W: Yes, no flag shawls, guys. So next episode we will cover Mary Gordon’s short story “Ugly.” It’s so good!
A: We have been waiting so long to do this short! It’s a quick read, and we will share the free link to the story in our show notes!
W: Happy Inauguration Day! We love all of our listeners—red, white, and blue.
A: And purple?
W: [both co-host start laughing] Bye guys!
A: Or as they’d say in the UK...Tootle Pip!
W: Buy guys!
