Wendy and Amy continue to explore the power dynamic between parents and children in Ashley Audrain's thriller The Push. They discuss how bracelets and blades might shift those power roles. And are you destined to pass on past hurts? Pop a cork to the power of the past.
Links mentioned in the show:
1) Our Personal Website
2) Our Buzzsprout Website
Next Episode: "Popular Girls" by Karen Shepard featuring Bellissima Prosecco.
Wendy and Amy continue to explore the power dynamic between parents and children in Ashley Audrain's thriller The Push. They discuss how bracelets and blades might shift those power roles. And are you destined to pass on past hurts? Pop a cork to the power of the past.
Links mentioned in the show:
1) Our Personal Website
2) Our Buzzsprout Website
Next Episode: "Popular Girls" by Karen Shepard featuring Bellissima Prosecco.
Prosecco N Prose | Season 3 | Episode 22 | The Push by Ashley Audrain.
Co-hosts: Wendy and Amy
To the best of our ability, this is a close transcript to the show. We hope our friends who might be hard of hearing can share in our love of literature and libation.
Amy (A): Welcome to Prosecco and Prose Episode 22.
Wendy (W): This week’s prosecco is DellaTorri.
A: This week’s prose is The Push by Ashley Audrain.
W: So, you actually read this book pretty soon after it came out and you said I had to read it.
A: Yeah, I guess I was pretty heavily hinting...suggesting...maybe pressuring you.
W: I’m so glad you did because it was incredible.
A: I told you. I like read it in one day. And you know how slow I read. Just couldn’t put it down.
W: When you said that, I knew I had to read it. But you haven’t yet given me something to read that I didn’t enjoy.
A: And you, my friend, haven’t given me a prosecco that I didn’t enjoy.
W: Are you sure about that? We did have that one last season …
A: It may not have been a favorite, but trust me, still enjoyed it. I always hunt the good stuff...plus it was free, cheap, and cold.
W: Okay, okay … I’ll take that. Let’s see if this prosecco, this Dellatorri, is enjoyable.
A: So, this Dellatorri is a DOC, a brut … so pretty dry...Holy Mother of grapes...looking at this label, it says it’s 12% alcohol!
W: That’s on the higher end for prosecco.
A: Means we better sip this stuff slowly, right?
W: I think so.
A: It’s about $14 a bottle and Vivino rates it at a 3.6.
W: Not an exceptional rating.
A: No … pretty middle of the road. Let me see this label again, it says: Floral aromatics of acacia and wisteria harmonize with white peach and apricot flavors, creating a wine of intriguing complexity. Huh! Sounds fancy.
W: Interesting…
A: Remember this one was quite lengthy with info.
W: That’s right...it had its pairing notes on it…
A: Pairs with spiced prosciutto and fresh mozzarella layered on toasted focaccia, seasoned with olive oil. It also says best served chilled. Duh!
W: Well...that goes without saying. That is a pretty specific pairing … and it seemed like sound advice, so we followed it as best we could.
A: Right. We couldn’t find spiced prosciutto, should have really looked at Wegmans...but Wendy’s put together some regular prosciutto and fresh mozzarella.
W: No focaccia either, but I also mustered up some Italian bread and seasoned dipping olive oil.
A: So pretty close. Now there was tons...I mean tons of perlage with a heavy mousse on the pour. The perlage is pretty continuous after the mousse settles.
W: Yes … lots of bubbles on the pour and in the glass … it’s a bubbly bubbly!
A: I love that...a bubbly bubbly …and a darker straw yellow color.
W: I would call it a golden yellow.
A: Oh! The smell is like spring has sprung! Like a bouquet in your nose!
W: I don’t know if I’m having flashbacks to our last one, but I’m getting a yeasty fruit smell.
A: You liked that yeasty Syltbar last episode, didn’t you? It must have left a doughy impression [I like bread]. OR maybe you’re just more aware of it now.
W: Like my sniffer is getting more refined?
A: The nose knows...well...Something like that.
W: You give me too much credit.
A: I mean really…if you do something with frequency you get better at it; it’s a given?
W: True … I am a frequent prosecco drinker.
A: We’ve both become habitual. Such a stressful job requirement ...I know. So what fruit are you getting?
W: Love this job! I actually can’t really pinpoint it, but I agree with you, there is floral on the nose, but it’s a soft floral. Quick taste before we move on?
A: Hmmmm … flavor is sweet … quite tart. A bit like grapefruit on the roof of your mouth. Sort of gives you a pucker factor.
W: You love sweet tarts so you should love this Dellatorri. Hey...didn’t you eat like a whole big box on the flight to Arizona?
A: So, you did notice. I also...and I never told you...but got a huge blister on my tongue. It was just so Painful...Sweet tarts are truly my addiction.
W: Peanut butter M&M’s are mine, but they never give me a blister.
A: Maybe you don’t eat enough of them.
W: Oh, I do! But I agree with you on the initial taste.
A: You mean you get sweet tarts?
W: No, I get a … citrusy apricot, and yes there’s definitely a pucker factor. I’ll be curious to see how this one opens up.
A: For sure … Don’t have my signature green apple yet.
W: Yeah … I don’t have that either yet. Author bio?
A: Yes. Ashley Audrain is a Canadian author and The Push, published in January of this year, so 2021, is her debut novel.
W: I hadn’t realized it was actually that recent. I just saw that it blew up everywhere on social media.
A: Everywhere! I actually came across this novel on the podcast Sarah’s Bookshelves Live.
W: You’ve gotten a couple good recommendations from her show.
A: She’s got some good stuff. But Sarah interviewed Ashley in February, and the conversation was just like...it just really grabbed my attention immediately...I think it was when someone...can’t remember if it was her or Ashley...said something about the dark side of motherhood.
W: Ooooh! That would pique my interest.
A: Piqued mine, and led me back to when I was pregnant and the early months after I had my son. I remember I was so so stressed out … I was only 20 years old...had no business having a baby...scared...living in Germany...no family...I mean the fear was real...plus Josh was so young in his Army career.
W: I can’t even imagine. Just being a new Mom would be scary. Not to mention being in a foreign country on top of that. I mean we’ve both done the foreign country thing. Plus, we also both know the Army can feel like a scary career choice at times.
A: All of that … so terrifying. I didn’t know what Army life was about either [do we know yet?]; I wasn’t raised in that world. But I had this beautiful baby boy...and he wouldn’t stop crying...I mean months upon months of crying shrills… seriously the medic told us we just needed a night out...no one would believe me that this kid wouldn’t stop crying. It was literally constant.
W: I don’t have children. A night out? What would that do? Do you just leave the baby to cry with someone else? Or does the crying magically stop when you leave? Explain the rationale to a non-parent, please.
A: Exactly...letting someone else do my job. Right? It’s not going to happen. When we moved back to the US and finally found someone who would take me seriously … like a pediatrician and not a 25-year-old combat trained medic … no no offense.
W: A medic? I was a medic. I know you were … not exactly trained in pediatrics...we were trained to deliver a child...that was the extent of it…right, right.
A: But...the German post was closing down...so we got what we got...but once we were back in the states, we found out he was having tummy troubles.
W: Oh Colic?
A: Yes...so bad. Now don’t want to get too far off track, but I also had a fear from my previous job of working at a CDC...remember the CDC’s…child development centers?
W: I’m familiar … I worked at one as well.
A: I worked there in one of the toddler rooms when we first got to Germany. There was this 2-year-old that was so bad...hate saying that word...but he was bad...kind of like Violet bad.
W: Violet being one of our characters …
A: Yes...but my thoughts kept coming back to him in the way Ashley was describing Violet’s behavior, it was at this point that I just knew I had to read this book…
W: I bet…
A: ...and now being a new grandmother ...exciting...I wanted to revisit that time should the conversation ever come up where I might be asked for advice.
W: I see … though I do remember you telling me that you will never give advice unless asked…
A: Exactly...I’m not going to be a Helen, you know as the readers will see in the book.
W: No, though she’s not as bad as some I’ve heard.
A: No, I agree, she’s not. But sometimes, no oftentimes, unsolicited advice to a stressed-out mother or father is anything but helpful.
W: I think that can go for nearly any unsolicited advice.
A: Anyway...enough on that...short story tangent went long... but that's how I came about reading this book. So, a few fun facts about Ms. Audrain … before she wrote this New York Times, Sunday Times, and Globe and Mail best seller, she was the publicity director of Penguin Books Canada.
W: You know...I had read she got a record-breaking deal for a debut novel.
A: She did. And there’s also a TV series in the works.
W: What? I would watch that! I would watch that.
A: I’m not much of a tv watcher, but I’ll definitely be checking it out...We’ll be there with our prosecco. That’s right. Now she has an idea for her second novel...I see your eyes going but before you ask, will not be a sequel. She said that it’ll be for the same audience as The Push.
W: Bummer … would really be interested in Violet’s story.
A: Me, too or even Fox’s...Because we don’t know his side...But I can only imagine what a heavy story that would be to come back to.
W: Good point.
A: But sequel or not, Will definitely be picking up any book by Ashley Audrain in the future.
W: Not only was the story riveting, I loved her writing voice.
A: It just really sucked you in. Let’s quickly introduce our four main characters we will focus on for our discussion.
W: And we will try not to make it confusing. We have four generations of women. Etta, the founding mother of our story, if you will, Cecilia, Etta’s daughter … Blythe, Cecilia’s daughter … and Violet, Blythe’s daughter. So, we have Etta, Cecelia, Blythe, Violet.
A: Good I’m glad you restated that because it is hard to follow ...It is...not when you’re reading the book... No, no, no, no... but I did draw a map in my book. I know you saw it. Of course you did. But very brief, but hopefully it will all make some sense in the summary.
W: Hopefully. Now warning, there will be spoilers. No... but there’s always spoilers on our podcast. But honestly, yeah...this book is so good, you should read it anyways. Now the story is told primarily from Blythe’s point of view in the present via a manuscript she’s writing, but we have flashbacks to her childhood, as well as flashbacks to Cecilia’s childhood, so we thought we might just retell those three stories separately? but they are...just understand...they are woven together throughout the book.
A: I think that is the best way to do this...so let’s see how this goes. I’ll just go ahead and get started with Etta, Blythe’s grandmother, who was born the very same day World War II began...thought that was really interesting...a little war...a little trauma...She fell in love with a future doctor...Louis, a selfless man...who gave up his dream of being a doctor to work on Etta’s father’s farm. He tragically dies in a tractor accident...horrific... Four months later, Etta gives birth to their daughter, Cecelia.
W: Etta’s mother cares for Cecelia until Etta realizes that the prescribed sedatives and days in bed will not allow her to move forward in her life. She eventually meets Henry, marries and is said to still be struggling with her nerves. She’s distant, emotionally absent, and even physically abusive, though, there are moments where Cecilia remembers Etta trying to be a good mother. I don’t know how to use that term. At age 32, Etta hangs herself from a tree in the front yard. Cecilia is just 15 years old.
A: Emotional...walking out of your house...Fast forward...Cecilia leaves town after high school graduation and is soon coupled up with Seb, but fooling around with his friend…of course. She learns she is pregnant with Blythe and tells Seb she wants an abortion. He tells Cecilia she can move back home to her step-father, Henry, and ask him for the money for the abortion. Unwilling to move back home, Cecilia choses to keep the pregnancy and gives birth to Blythe.
W: Cecilia does not feel she is meant for motherhood, and after Blythe’s birth, she refuses to feed Blythe and instead goes outside to smoke a cigarette and tells Seb they could just leave, just them, no baby.
A: Right...she didn’t want a baby to begin with, and she doesn’t want a baby now. Cecilia had other plans for her life.
W: But … Blythe is an easy baby, rarely cries, and Seb says to Cecilia almost every day, “Aren’t we lucky?”
A: I just thought that was so just oddly placed...but it makes sense as the story goes along...makes complete sense...I had to come back to that a couple times. Now Blythe seems to have only a few memories from her childhood. She remembers her mother being distant and emotionally unavailable. She recalls Cecilia trying to do a couple motherly things...and there’s one in particular...it's when she attended a Mother’s Day tea party when Blythe was in third grade. But Blythe’s mother/daughter moments come primarily from Mrs. Ellington, a neighbor lady whose sons are friends with Blythe. When Blythe is 11, Cecilia leaves and begins a relationship with another man...shocking...Blythe only sees Cecelia twice more in her life.
W: Blythe meets Fox in college, they fall in love and get married. Blythe is a bit ambivalent about motherhood, and concerned she will simply repeat the patterns of her mother and grandmother, Cecilia and Etta. Fox is very reassuring; tells her she is different and she gets pregnant. Initially excited, once in labor, Blythe tells Fox she does not want the baby. Yikes.
A: Poor thing...a little too late to make that decision. Just a tad...just a tad. It’s a scary moment. I was terrified. After Violet is born, Blythe struggles with the baby, who cries constantly, doesn’t nurse well, and she thinks the baby hates her. But Fox thinks Blythe’s anxiety is affecting Violet.
W: I suppose that could happen...absolutely...Fox and Violet quickly develop a connection, he earns her first smile among other moments, which Blythe is jealous of. Blythe tries to connect with other mothers, to learn if they are struggling as she is with the difficulties of motherhood, but she can tell her feelings are not the same and she feels more and more isolated.
A: Well at this point, Fox and Blythe’s marriage really starts to suffer. Just to add to that, there are also lots of little incidences of behavioral issues with Violet. Remember when Violet bit Blythe?... ahhh yes. My son bit me. He just clamped on. Then she was called out at school by the teachers for intentional violent behaviors. Later she told Blythe she was going to harm a fellow student. The worst was that one day on the playground, Blythe believes she witnessed Violet trip a child, causing him to fall on his head which led to his death.
W: Well, the family moves...fresh start... and Blythe wants a new chance at motherhood. Sam is born and the loving connection she never had with Violet comes easily with Sam. Violet is initially warm and accepting of Sam, but Blythe starts to worry Violet is a danger to Sam.
A: So one day, Blythe, Violet, and baby Sam are out for a stroll...a bit of confusion erupts as they wait for the light to change and Sam’s stroller rolls into the intersection; he is killed immediately. Blythe believes Violet pushed that stroller.
W: Consumed by her grief, Fox and Blythe’s marriage crumbles, and Blythe learns he’s having an affair, which she finds herself nearly numb to, still grieving her son…couldn’t believe it...it was almost too much...her body couldn’t handle it. They separate and Blythe uses a disguise and fake name...actually her mother Cecelia’s middle name … Anne ... to befriend Fox’s girlfriend, Gemma, at a mother’s group.
A: Blythe pretends Sam is still alive as her friendship grows with Gemma. She learns Gemma and Fox have a son together. Blythe’s deception with Gemma, is found out by Fox, and Gemma cuts off contact, but not before Blythe tells her of her suspicions that Violet may be a danger to their son, Jet.
W: I think it's interesting you know she did want to keep her son alive...not to get out of our summary, but I felt that the family didn’t want her to experience her grief. She was sort of stuck...right...Blythe and Violet’s relationship continues to deteriorate until Violet no longer spends time with her mother and Fox cuts off visitation. Blythe resorts to watching her daughter and the family in their house from her car.
A: A year and a half later, Blythe is in therapy, still estranged from her daughter. Gemma calls, I mean she’s hysterical, yep... telling her, something has happened to Jet. That’s where the story ends...yep...it just ends right there...It’s just a very powerful, powerful story.
W: It is. It like leaves you literally breathless. It left me that way.
A: Yes...it read like a very slow, slow obsession...kind of gave me a suffocating feel. I liked how she used the manuscript to Fox as a method of telling the story...you know with her in the car at the beginning and again at the end...it made for really good bookends. Now before we get into our power theme, I think we need to talk about our narrator, Blythe.
W: Our unreliable narrator?
A: Yes, unreliable is an understatement, Wendy. Let’s get out our trusty Bedfords …love me my Bedford...me too... an unreliable, also known as fallible, narrator is one who intentionally, or unintentionally, fails to provide an accurate report of events or situations … and whose credibility is therefore compromised.
W: And are most often used in narratives with a first-person point of view, which our novel is. Now don’t fall asleep Amy...top of your glass. There are lists and lists of types of unreliable narrators,...i see this...yes...no I’m not going to tell you the whole list...I’m telling you they all come down to these four basic types: the first one is the pícaro, who uses exaggeration and bragging; the second one is the madman or woman, who is mentally detached from reality, they are either only experiencing mental defense mechanisms, such as post-traumatic dissociation and self-alienation, or severe mental illness; the naif, whose perception is immature or limited through their point-of-view; and finally the liar, who is of sound cognition... supposed to have it all... but deliberately misrepresents themselves, it could be to cover up something or to make themselves look better.
A: I personally think Blythe falls into a couple of those types, I’m going to say...the madwoman and definitely the liar.
W: So were going to say she is of sound cognition...yes, I agree...Completely agree. She lies to Fox … remember when he comes home and Blythe has been writing and Violet has been crying in her crib. Fox asks if it’s happened before and she says no.
A: She also lies about her family to Fox, to the mothers about motherhood being rewarding...she lies to Violet when she finds the book on infidelity. The real big lie is the disguise as Anne, when she’s trying, and eventually, befriends Gemma.
W: Remember after her cover is blown and she and Gemma finally meet up? Gemma asks her what happened, with Sam, right right…. and Blythe thinks to herself, “I’d told so many lies. I couldn’t tell another one.” Even she is admitting she’s a liar.
A: Right, so as a reader, you have to question what else is she lying about?
W: Yeah exactly...It could all be a lie. Now you mentioned the madman/ madwoman type. How do you see that?
A: Well, I mean I think it is pretty clear that Blythe was suffering from postpartum depression...Okay...okay... She had all the signs: sadness, anxiety, sleeping a lot, mood changes, the crying spells, a total disconnection...the list goes on...
W: Lot of emotional and physical challenges…
A: Right and she initially did try to join in the mothers’ groups, but they really only made her feel more and more isolated.
W: ... and then I mean she just started to isolate herself.
A: I also think it went deeper than just the postpartum depression...okay...it seems like there was a long line of serious mental health issues on that side of the family. Wouldn’t you thing...yeah there’s something...I’m not a doctor, and can’t speak on this for sure, but I swear there is some bi-polar in that family.
W: I’m not a doctor either but there’s something else there...I agree, but I did think of Blythe as being mentally outside her family, and definitely Violet...she was disconnected from her. And it really got pronounced after Sam’s death.
A: It did … I mean, she pretended her son was alive. I’d say that’s a bit detached from reality. It’s not something a rational person would do.
W: No, I don’t think so. And she and she starts to question herself … what did she see on the playground? Did Violet trip that boy? When she went back to the intersection where Sam died? Did Violet push him? Can she trust what she believes she saw? Yeah, I can totally see the madwoman type.
A: And makes our Blythe a very unreliable narrator.
W: I would have to agree...Now I would love to take just a second and ask our listeners…
A: ...our reliable listeners…
W: Yes, Amy...ask our reliable listeners to rate and review us if you are listening on Apple podcast...it helps us to reach more lit lovers like yourself.
A: Also...if you would, we’d love for you to please share this podcast with just one person...it also helps grow our reach.
W: So thanks in advance.
A: Yes...grazie...now Wendy, how are you liking this prosecco so far?
W: I like it. ummmm...It’s got a nice pear as it opens up, and I’m still getting a citrusy apricot. It’s tasty. You?
A: Yeah...I'm liking it so far. I’m definitely tasting some green apple. You know I always find it if it’s there, but this time...how do I say it...it’s more of the essence of it … like when I exhale from the nose, if that makes sense.
W: It does. I do get green apple on the finish, but it’s also kind-of sticky in the mouth. And yeast. I mean I taste the yeast.
A: You’ve got yeast on the brain!
W: I can’t help it if I taste it! That was your job but now you are all about some green apple!
A: Hey! I taste what I taste...it’s what makes me reliable! Sure...But this is a good one. Let’s talk about our power theme.
W: This novel was all about power. Right...You know I word-nerded it and some form of the word power only appeared eight times.
A: I thought that was so odd when you told me that. It felt like it was on every single page.
W: Oh, it was on every page, but we both know you can show even better than tell in writing. Okay English teacher...Look at “The Veldt.”
A: So, so true. You know, just to tie in our unreliable narrator, isn’t there something powerful about being an unreliable narrator?
W: Oh?
A: Yes … as a reader, you’re sort of bound to follow them … like your kind of at their mercy to find out where the truth lies.
W: Had not thought of that, but there is some power in that.
A: I’d say a lot of power. Yeah, we’re hooked...right...So unlike “The Veldt,” where the children had the power and kept the power for the entire story, power is transferred back and forth between parent and child throughout The Push.
W: Exactly … but who ends up with the power at the end?
A: Let’s find out. We’ll start with the seven instances in the novel where the word power was deliberately used and related to our theme.
W: And then we'll add in other moments that stuck out to us. So our first instance occurs in a flashback. Blythe and Thomas Ellington, her best friend and neighbor, had written a story together about a gnome who grants a family one special superpower.
A: Cecilia, again Blythe’s mother, finds the book, and sees the picture Blythe drew …Right.
W: This picture of a family … of a daughter with Crayola-peach skin as part of a Black family. Blythe had made herself a part of the Ellington family. And Cecilia...no pun intended throws the book at Blythe, hitting her.
A: This is an interesting play on our power theme. Blythe exerts power in that she takes herself out of her family and places herself, very deliberately, in another. But Cecilia, her mother, literally throws that power right back in her face.
W: And Blythe takes the book back to Thomas, even though it’s her favorite they’ve made together. Effectively giving the power back to her mother.
A: But … Blythe also had the power … she found a way that got you know under her mother’s skin.
W: Very good point. Our next instance is when Violet is a baby. Blythe talks about the rush of power she feels when she makes decisions other mothers wouldn’t make, or she thinks other mothers wouldn’t make because they weren’t supposed to.
A: Yes, and this was just so cruel. Violet’s bottle had fallen out of the diaper bag and rolled across the dirty floor. Yeah...Blythe made the decision to not wipe off the nipple. And this isn’t the only time she’s made decisions like this … she’s left wet diapers on too long, skipped baths … I mean...this is more than a power play, it’s clearly abuse.
W: Which is a power play.
A: I was so disappointed. Our next use of power is in a flashback when Cecilia was a child. Etta had made a dress for Cecilia for a sixth-grade school dance.
W: And Cecilia absolutely loved the dress …she did...she did... but it was too small and she could not get the dress on. Etta orders her to put the dress on. To make it fit.
A: At first, Cecilia isn’t acting defiantly … I didn’t think...I didn't think so at all ...she’s trying to figure out what to do. The dress simply didn’t fit.
W: No, it doesn’t. But as Etta’s rage grows, Cecilia realizes she has a kind of power over Etta. She can make her angry … make her lose control. And so she does refuse to go make the dress fit.
A: Cecilia also lets us know, watching Etta scream as the rage pumped through her sort of like a drug, that she, Cecilia, would come to know that feeling many years later.
W: Yeah...was a bit of a moment…Etta sloppily adds panels to the dress...oh my mom would have a fit...and Cecilia wears it to the end-of-year dance.
A: And to dinner, right...Right! Even though it looked horrific. I could totally envision it. Cecilia wore the dress to exert power over her mother. In fact, her action has so much power...like I’ll show you...Henry and Etta don’t even mention it.
W: Not a word. The child has taken the power from the parent. Okay … this next one is when Violet is a toddler. Blythe has gone back to writing and she ignores Violet’s cries when she wakes up from a nap to continue writing.
A: Well … she makes up for this parenting lapse by giving Violet you know a cookie on a walk or an extra-long bath time.
W: Oh, of course. I mean, that makes it okay. But Blythe realizes her days are numbered and soon she will lose this power she has over Violet.
A: Because very soon, Violet will be able to talk. Yep...She will be able to tell Fox about her day. The power is on a blade’s edge.
W: It is. I see how you snuck that in. Now the next power shift also takes place between Blythe and Violet.
A: Right...it’s after Fox has discovered Blythe, disguised as Anne, had befriended Gemma. Blythe asks Violet how the baby is. They’ve literally never discussed Jet yet as it was a secret Violet was keeping.
W: And Violet she recognizes this shift in power … Blythe can see it. And she no longer is the keeper of the secret, so power, or at least some of it, is now in Blythe’s hands.
A: Blythe had to do something. I mean...Fox took the power she had as Anne, with her disguise, and changed her back into Blythe, someone who was powerless.
W: He really did. We have another flashback with Cecilia when she first leaves home...Okay. She knows she has a beauty that attracts attention. It makes her feel powerful and vulnerable at the same time.
A: I kind of felt like Cecilia felt like prey when she and Seb went out, but she also likes being wanted by men in that way. Did you kind of feel that feeling...yeah...It does lead her to take up with Seb’s friend.
W: And we know from Blythe’s story, that Cecilia continues to take evenings and even long weekends into the city. I mean she was probably chasing after that power high.
A: Very likely. The last use of the word power is when Blythe goes as a chaperone on Violet’s field trip. Yep...She finds the bracelet she’d seen Violet stringing the night before that she thought might be for one of her friends.
W: Right. I did wonder why Violet didn’t protest when I went back to look...It was just left by the girls.
A: ...as if it was unwanted...and that tiny act shows Blythe that Violet is powerless among her friends. She is no longer the girl who intimidates on the playground. You could say the bracelet is a symbol of a loss of power maybe.
W: Oh you could and she knows Violet did not want her to see that.
A: You can’t let someone see you powerless if you are to maintain power over them.
W: And Violet does have the power over Blythe, has pretty much from birth.
A: True, which is very much like Bradbury’s “The Veldt” …yes... Blythe, though, only had moments of power throughout, as a child and as a parent.
W: Yeah, her power was always fleeting. She couldn’t hang on to it. But she did have the reader the whole time.
A: As our unreliable narrator, she sure did. Have another thought … and that is this power to simply become a Mom … whether you know I even want to or should.
W: That pretty much umbrellas the whole novel.
A: It really does. Now I think Etta maybe wanted to be a mother, but when her husband died before the birth, I think Cecilia may have been a reminder of all she’d lost. Even back to being you know a doctor’s wife.
W: Yeah, I never got the sense that Etta didn’t want to be a mother...so I think that could be true. And Cecilia got pregnant by accident. We know she didn’t want a baby. This took her power away.
A: Which she then worked to get back by having power over Blythe.
W: And Blythe kind of only has a baby for Fox.
A: Well, Violet, yes, but then she did want Sam.
W: She thought she could right what she had done wrong with Violet. You know … not to be contradictory, but I just had a thought … because I get your power to be a mother, but for these women, it rendered them powerless.
A: I mean it just goes to show you that not everyone’s super power is to be a mom...true...the desire, physical means, mental...and even emotional health. Again...such a powerful story...so different from what I’ve read before. We need to move on...
W: We do. So you already mentioned the bracelet as a symbol, let’s talk about the blade...I did kind of slyly sneak that in... you did kind of sneak that in... So the razor blades Blythe feels when she tries to nurse and the blades Fox uses in his work as an architect.
A: No real surprises, a blade is often a weapon and symbolizes pain, it symbolizes betrayal, revenge, sacrifice, maybe.
W: I had read in my digging that women giving birth would put one under the bed to ease the pain.
A: I’ve never heard that...sounds kind of superstitious and sort of odd...But...Blythe wanted to feel the pain, though, right?
W: Oh she did. That was a pretty intense chapter.
A: Pretty intense moment, in my digging, found this interesting in blade symbolism. Blades symbolize the nature of the mind.
W: Really? Interesting.
A: Yes, so the mind can speak of clarity and good actions, the mind is logical, it’s caring, it’s rational … The goodness of our heart can be lived out because of our mind.
W: There is obviously another side, because Blythe struggles to be logical, caring, or rational.
A: Of course. But the flip is that the mind can stab us in the back, in a sense...torment us with negative thoughts.
W: Blythe is constantly tormenting herself … questioning her ability to be a mother, take care of Violet, take care of Sam, with what she thinks she saw on the playground with Violet and the boy … at the intersection … and that’s just the surface of it.
A: And remember, beyond the mental part of it, she actually took a blade at one point and she cut herself. There’s the physical part. She wanted to inflict pain on herself … like you know it was a revenge against herself maybe.
W: That’s right. And when a blade ends up in Jet’s little hands, it’s a way for Violet to inflict physical pain on someone and revenge on Blythe.
A: You know...I thought it telling that Blythe kept the longest blade after Fox left. The blade that could possibly cause the most harm.
W: And it very well may have … we don’t know what happened to Jet.
A: We don’t, we can only assume. The blade is definitely a power symbol. There was one more power symbol, kind of goes back to our last episode “The Veldt” again.
W: Right. The stuffed lion from the zoo trip.
A: And the fact that it was a mother lion … small, but important detail, because Violet throws it out the window. Clearly asserting her power … ummmm...it kind of showed... she is in charge of the situation.
W: As if her power had been questioned, but just in case …
A: Jinx...you owe me a prosecco...yep...I found it very telling Violet, a child, could just discard something new and special … i know...it was like a foreshadowing of Sam’s death and how easily a life could be discarded when hate is a major force.
W: Right...you know Violet does add, after throwing the lion, that she hates her mom. I felt for Blythe in that moment. No one wants to be told they are hated … I can only imagine the pain when it’s from your own child.
A: Wendy…most kids at some point tell their mothers they hate them...yes….but the feel here...in the novel...this instance you know it just wasn’t normal.
W: It wasn’t...it was extremely calculated. It was meant to inflict as much pain as possible. Now I know you’ve been itching to get to the epigraph.
A: oh, now do you mind if I go head and read it? Oh, you need to … “It is often said that the first sound we hear in the womb is our mother’s heartbeat. Actually, the first sound to vibrate our newly developed hearing apparatus is the pulse of our mother’s blood through her veins and arteries. We vibrate to that primordial rhythm even before we have ears to hear. Before we were conceived, we existed in part as an egg in our mother’s ovary. All the eggs a woman will ever carry form in her ovaries while she is a four-month-old fetus in the womb of her mother. This means our cellular life as an egg begins in the womb of our grandmother. Each of us spent five months in our grandmother’s womb and she in turn formed within the womb of her grandmother. We vibrate to the rhythms of our mother’s blood before she herself is born…” And this was written by Layne Redmond, and this was from When the Drummers Were Women.
W: I hate to be a broken record, but that’s a pretty powerful way to start the novel.
A: Oh! The essence of that epigraph just sets the stage and the tone for the entire novel.
W: It does make you think about the thread that runs through these women … Etta, Cecilia, Blythe, Violet … was there something there that eventually shaped how they came to mother? I mean we don’t know Etta’s mother, so we don’t know that story.
A: Maybe...So that has kind of me thinking … This epigraph alludes to the fact that this thread is evident in women … in the daughters, granddaughters, great-granddaughters … What does this mean for sons? Don’t you think it’s interesting that the son, Sam, did not live? And maybe even Jet?
W: I think that is interesting … almost over my head. And like I didn’t have kids … so what happens then? Did I sever the thread?
A: So does a son sever the thread? He’s not passing on my eggs.
W: You’re kind of saying we are done … our eggs end with us, you have no daughter, I have no children, period. We’re done.
A: Yeah, I guess I kind of am saying that. Do I look like a ghost?
W: You just look like there will not be another Amy. That’s pretty powerful stuff. Any other final thoughts?
A: That knocked me for a loop …
W: You are speechless. Is this a first?
A: I think it is … I mean … woah …
W: Is that your final thought?
A: NO! I almost thought...now that I’m kind of back I just want to leave with this …it’s a thought I had last night...you and I haven't talked about it yet... I think Audrain named Violet our character Violet and left left out the N for VIOLENT … you take the N out of Violent and you have Violet
W: Well, that is something to consider. Okay...it was like a 2am thought...what about a right now thought? What about our prosecco? Pairing thoughts? Overall thoughts?
A: It paired well with our prosciutto and mozzarella …and we didn’t have spice...no... I think it would pair well as an aperitif with a nice cheese platter … some Brie, a soft, creamy cheese.
W: I agree. A Camembert … or a goat cheese on pear … or a soft creamy blue cheese with some fig jam.
A: I love fig jam...that is so good. Now Vivino had it as a 3.6 … what do we think?
W: I really like it. I think it’s really good, easy to drink … I’m going to say a 3.9.
A: I would also give it a 3.9. I would definitely drink this again. Plus, I love, love the pretty blue label …
W: … it’s kind of like a stained mosaic glass.
A: I can’t wait for our listeners to see it on Instagram. And it’s potent. That 12%.
W: It is potent. Powerful book, powerful prosecco.
A: A perfect pairing.
W: Indeed.
A: Alright friends … join us in two weeks for our discussion of the short story “Popular Girls” by Karen Shepard which we will pair with Bellissima. And I am going to go ahead Wendy and put a link to that story in our show notes. Okay I think that’s it...Cheers, Wendy.
W: Cheers!