"Popular Girls" by Karen Shepard

Join Wendy and Amy for a discussion of Karen Shepard's short story "Popular Girls." Power and fashion go hand-in-hand, but what if it's all just an illusion? What happens if the façade fractures? Pop a cork to the power of popularity!

Links mentioned in the show:
1) Karen Shepard's Website and link to short story "Popular Girls"
2) Our Personal Website
3) Our Buzzsprout Website
4) Bellissima Prosecco
5) Alison Lurie's Website

Karen's book recommendations:
- Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe
- First Responders by Jennifer Murphy
- Under a White Sky, The Nature of The Future by Elizabeth Kolbert
- Phase Six by author's husband Jim Shepard
- Pity the Beast by Robin McLean

Next Episode: Detransition, Baby Torrey Peters featuring Ornato Prosecco 

Transcript

Prosecco N Prose | Season 3 | Episode 23 | “Popular Girls” by Karen Shepard

Co-hosts: Wendy and Amy

Wendy (W): Welcome to Prosecco and Prose Episode 23.

Amy (A): This week’s prosecco is Bellissima. 

W: This week’s prose is “Popular Girls” by Karen Shepard.                       

 * * * intro * * *

A: Ummm, Wendy [yeah]… I’m looking at our bottle...it says this is a sparkling white wine, not prosecco…ooh, I think we might have messed up.

W: Well, but I mean it is made with the glera grapes … maybe there is some technicality we don’t know about that means it can’t be called a prosecco? 

A: Hmm! … Maybe. There’s no DOC or DOCG labels either...you know, that slip of paper gives me so much comfort when drinking Italian wine.

W: You know that is just an inspection label right? [I do, but there’s just something about it] Is it like one of those inspection labels you find in your pocket of your clothes...like Inspected by? [Exactly] Okay. That might also be because of the sparkling wine label … I remember reading that prosecco and champagne are sparkling wines, but not all sparkling wines are prosecco or champagne. Remember? Something to do with the process. I think. Don’t quote me.

A: Well, this sparkling wine...Not prosecco...is 11.5% alcohol, [ Ummm I’ll take it] about $20 a bottle but it got a 4.1 Vivino rating.

W: A 4.1 … that’s pretty high. [Yeah]  It’s got a picture of a woman … is that Venus?

A: Ooooh! Now that you say that...I think it is … Ole Madam Venus ... the goddess of beauty...just one more reason it pairs so well with our short story.

W: I hadn’t even made that connection, but fitting. And Bellissima does mean most beautiful.

A: It just makes so much sense...Now this is a zero sugar sparkling wine...made with organic grapes and only 92 calories per glass. Loving our vibe this season of trying to be a bit more health conscious.

W: Or trying to counteract the effects of drinking the whole bottle. 

A: Well that and doubling up on workouts...I’m in OT overload.

W: I am in running miles overload [i know you are]! But I am not giving up my prosecco.

A: Never doing that. This prosecco— 

W: —sparkling white wine … 

A: …, technicality...This sparkling white wine is from a line by Christie Brinkley…

W: Cover Girl Model!

A: That’s right...I remember her commercials growing up...do you? But Wendy...did you notice the hidden message under the foil?

W: Like the foil around the neck? I mean I notice the message like it’s on the bottle...

A: Yes...Maybe you should open a bottle or two once in a while instead of expecting to be served like a goddess… 

W: No, I’m good. I’m good. I’m always afraid it will explode on me and the cork will fly out and take my eye out or your eye out or something.

A: Whatever….You’d think by now with as much prosecco as you’ve had, you’d see that the risk is like really low.

W: Ruffino opens up all my prosecco [I know he does...your a princess] I guess you don’t realize my secret skill set yet.

A: Ahhhh…Like maybe taking eyes out?

W: No, making any object a dangerous obstacle or potential injury point. For myself.

A: Oh kind of like your adult cartwheels? 

W: Oh we’re not going to go there. 

A: Won’t tell our friends you popped your back out while trying to….

W: Stop!

A: Guess I’ll just keep popping the corks… and you keep popping your back ...  [anyway] Anywho … So under the foil there’s this hidden message: Here let me show you ... right here...says “Dream Big Bellissima Dreams and May They All Come True! Cheers, CB.” I flipping love this!

W: Me, too! Okay let’s get this poured.

A: Okay …let me serve you... Oooohhhhh….look...at...that...

W: Not too crazy … nice bubbles on the pour.

A: No foam over either …[No]  Has nice fine streams of perlage … pretty color, kind of silvery...maybe...maybe a pale yellow.

W: The bubbles are light in the glass...nice steady stream. The color is pretty … I kind of see it as a silvery-green in the color. You see a little bit of green in that color?

A:  Ahhhh yeah kind of a yellowish green, but it kind depends where you’re standing. Hmmm Smells fruity … Peach! Oooh...I smell peach.

W: I’m getting some peach as well … it’s kind of a fruity-floral smell for me.

A: Oh wow! … Wait til you taste it! It’s fizzy …I mean I wasn’t really expecting that...you know there really aren’t a bunch of bubbles in the glass. Where’d this come from?

W: Wow! I agree with you … it’s very bubbly in the mouth.

A: The fizziness makes me think of citrus more than tasting it …. I mean if that makes sense … might just let it sit a bit ... see what happens.

W: Yeah, the bite of the fizz makes you think citrus … I think I’m getting green apple … but it’s like if you took green apple and dipped it in lemon juice. Remember when you were a kid and your mom dipped them to keep them from getting brown.

A: Slowly getting my green apple on the tongue… though...it took me a couple of tastes...And the citrus...it’s there on the edge. Hmmm...It’s good, even if it’s not real prosecco.

W: It’s got bubbles and it’s got a lot of prosecco characteristics; I think. 

A: I wouldn’t kick CB’s glera grape juice out of my prosecco glass!

W: No way! Let’s talk about Ms. Karen Shepard.

A: Karen Shepard...What a gem! She’s written four novels and a short story collection. This timeless short story we’re discussing today, “Popular Girls,” was published in the October 2001 issue of The Atlantic Monthly. Do you realize that is like 20 years ago? [We’re not that old...continue please] It’s available as a free read on her website, http://karen-shepard.com...I’ll go ahead and put it in the show notes...but it’s also in her short story collection, Kiss Me Someone, which was published in September 2007. 

W: Ms. Shepard teaches writing and literature at Williams College in Williamstown, MA… would love to take a class from her 

A: … oh my God...me, too. Wendy, we'd be teacher’s pets...

W: You know it! She is married to that other Shepard, novelist Jim Shepard, and has three children. Ms. Shepard was kind enough to answer a few questions for us.

A: I’m feeling just a little bad right now.

W: Bad? Why? Because we’re nosy?

A: Ummm...That wasn’t where I was going with this, but she told us that anyone who knows her, will tell you her go-to drink is prosecco; and here we’re drinking sparkling wine. I feel fraudish.

W: I do see your point, but here’s my argument. It’s very proseccoey though...she won’t care … and we used our proven scientific method of pairing … a label that has Venus is just so perfect to pair with “Popular Girls.”

A: I will agree with you...I mean it’s sort of perfect for our author, too...she’s so pretty!  Plus it was in the prosecco section, so … 

W: Exactly. 

A: You know, I also love to ask authors what they hope readers take away from their work … 

W: I do and I liked Ms. Shepard’s response.

A: She said, and I’m just going to quote her cuz I think it is just the best way to put it...“I don’t know that I think about stories this way. I’ve always liked what Mary Gaitskill and I hope to God I’m pronouncing that correctly [it seems correct] yeah Gaitskill said years ago about one of her short stories, “The Girl on the Plane” … something like, ‘You feel what you feel. Where you go with it is your responsibility.’ She goes on to say that if we can’t take responsibility for our feelings, how will we ever take responsibility for our actions? Love, Mary.”

W: Well, it puts the onus on the reader … they need to think, not be told what to think and feel about a piece of prose. I think that’s really important. A reader might miss what truly speaks to them if they are worried about getting the message the author intended. And that is nothing against authors who have a message that they are trying to put out there.  

A: You know they might even think they’re reading wrong if they don’t get that message.

W: And there is no wrong way to read!

A: Never! The beauty is always in the interpretation…I always like to ask though. I also couldn’t resist asking her if she ever has her students analyze her writing...to which she said “No, that would be weird.” That cracks me up. [me too] I mean if it were me, I’d covertly sneak a piece of my literature in class just to see what would happen.

W: Oh for sure...I feel like I might try to do that as well. If I had a piece that even warranted analysis.

A: That would be key. Also asked about her writing process …and guess what?

W: What…

A: It’s similar to yours.

W: Oh Procrastination?

A: Oooh Bingo! And then she gets angry with herself, a bit like you. She said that she just really just starts writing...badly at first...then if she’s lucky, a little better, eventually.

W: Well, I mean she has published five books, so I think I will continue to model my writing process after her. 

A: I’m just not down with procrastination.

W: Thank goodness! I don’t think this would work too well if we both were. [Never] I need someone to give me some deadlines.

A: I was curious to know what Ms. Shepard was reading when I reached out...She had a nice mix of fiction and non-fiction to add to our never-ending stack.

W: I haven’t read a non-fiction in a good while; I’d love a good rec.

A: Well, she had a few: Ahhh, the first one...Empire of Pain by Patrick Radden Keefe about the Sackler family. Apparently, they are the founders and owners of Purdue Pharma and are considered to have had a significant role in the opioid crisis. 

W: Really? Oh … okay. I would be interested in that.

A: Said if you want to feel better about your own family, read about the Sacklers.

W: Now if that doesn’t make a book sound interesting … What else was in her stack?

A: A couple other non-fiction pieces, First Responders by Jennifer Murphy, which was a memoir of COVID through the lens of 9/11 by a volunteer EMT; and the other one was...Under a White Sky, the Nature of the Future by Elizabeth Kolbert, which paints a pretty grim picture.

W: Didn’t Ray Bradbury already do that for us a couple episodes ago?

A: Well I suppose, in a science fiction sort of way. [Okay] She also suggested two forthcoming fiction books … one by the other Shepard, you know, Jim, it’s called Phase Six...it’s about a global pandemic that makes COVID look like child’s play.

W: Yikes! Jim better not know something we don’t.

A: Let’s hope not. One pandemic in my lifetime is plenty. [Agreed] And the last suggestion was Pity the Beast by Robin McLean, which she described as a writer whose worldview is disorienting in the best possible ways.

W: Those all sound really good. You guys came for a discussion on a short and got suggestions for additional prose.

A: Maybe...But I like suggestions from authors I enjoy reading. 

W: and suggestions from our listeners.

A: Love those! So please feel free to rate, review, suggest … Just tell us what you think.

W: And tell a friend what you think … maybe they’d enjoy our podcast as well.

A: We’re on all the podcast platforms...So thanks in advance.

W: Moving on to our short story, we have five 10th-grade girls, Kaethe, Alina, CJ, Sydney, and Stephanie, but they really act as one collective narrator of the story.

A: You know, I thought so too … I asked Ms. Shepard if she aligned herself with any one of these characters individually … 

W: I know you said you were kind of more of a CJ.

A: I am so a CJ...or at least I was a CJ back in the day… but there were bits of all the girls that I see in myself. 

W: You are a popular girl, and I can only imagine you were in high school as well.

A: Popular with the boys...maybe...and not for the reasons you think either...but Ms. Shepard did say CJ’s the coolest one, [of course], and probably doing the most interesting things now.

W: Of course she is. And you as well.

A: But she also said she could be “none of the girls” and “all of them.” I really liked that...They were a mashup of elementary and high school people she knew. Her husband, the other Shepard, smart man that he is, insists that she “was a queen in high school,” though she “always thought of herself as a “B” girl, not the Popular Girl, you know the satellite one … as such, she spent a lot of time paying attention to popular girls, and that’s probably where the story came from.”

W: Very interesting … I don’t think I was even a satellite girl. Is there a term for the girls outside of even the solar system?

A: Celestial? Maybe? That sort of fits you...I mean Ruffino would agree...I bet!

W: Hmmm not feeling it…

A: Well it’s better than being extraterrestrial. 

W: All this UFO talk on the news is getting to you, isn’t it? 

A: Well I’m glued like a…

W: Moving on …I don’t want to know where you were going that….summary [it was clean] really [well maybe] exactly... “Popular Girls” starts off with the narrator telling the reader, “You know who we are.” Five popular girls with little to no individual distinguishing characteristics tell the reader about their designer clothes, professionally decorated rooms, very old private school, successful parents, and the things they get away with, simply because they are popular.

A: And if that has you thinking, now why would I want to read this story? I say who cares? Everybody knows or has known girls like this … maybe they are popular girls, but those details set the stage for this story. And these girls and, the seemingly superficial facts, are what pulls the reader in...I mean at least it did for me. 

W: Do they ever. These girls are invited everywhere. Can go anywhere. And that lands them in a limo with three men, though the narrator prefers to just call them older boys. They all go to a club, one girl in the group gets sick, the boys take them back to their place and it’s pretty clear what will happen next. The reader is not so much invited along on their night out, as they are compelled to see where these girls end up. 

A: And it’s fine, it’s okay, our narrator attempts to assure us that the girls are loved and protected by their families, who are at home, asleep, and soon the girls will be, too. It’s a story that pulls you in immediately and doesn’t let go. I mean it’s so well-written.

W: It really, really was … now we have to talk about this narrator, or our collective narrator.

A: Oh how can we not? This short story is written from a second-person point of view, which is pretty rare in fiction. 

W: And I read Ms. Shepard actually has two short stories in her collection, Kiss Me Someone, written from this point of view, this one, and another one called “The Mothers.”

A: Love “The Mothers”… and I would say that one is similar in that...ahhh...it also has a collective narrator, but more of a first person narration, not second person. Ummm...The mothers together read sort of as a collective group...really like a very competitive group of moms. 

W: Thank you for sharing that. I didn’t find that on her page, it was just a review that I read. They are both direct styles of writing, so maybe it seemed that way to that particular reader. I’m curious to read.

A: Oh you’ll love it... but these girls are direct, they’re in your face. Just like the popular girls are in real life.

W: ...kind of makes the narration even more fitting.

A: I think so. Now in a second-person point of view, the narrator addresses you directly. It breaks down the fourth wall by addressing the reader and bringing the reader into the story.

W: Which can be challenging, because the writer is asking the reader to suspend belief and imagine themselves as part of the story. And I got to say I did get that feeling … I felt like I was with these girls and yet cringing at the same time.

A: Well, this style of narration implies the reader is either a protagonist or even a character in the story. The events are happening to them...For me, there was a little Deja vu in this read. 

W: Won’t touch that ever! [ahhh come on] No! I think writing from this point of view would be very challenging … I thought I might try a little writing exercise just to try and I lasted barely a paragraph before I slipped out of it. I think your writing has to be so deliberate. 

A: I’m interested in your little writing exercise.

W: Try it. It was kind of fun, just harder than I anticipated.

A: No! No! No!  I meant that I’m interested in reading what you wrote...I’m sure it went something like…You let me think here...”You and Jack went out back...to do what you had to do…”

W: Ahhhh Amy, I don’t think so … First it was a little classier than that [I can finish that for you] ah no...it’s best left in the bin. Geez! It did have me looking through some of my kids' books though. I actually had several written from a second person point of view. It’s not that uncommon in kids books. Wish I had thought of them when I was trying to teach points of view. Moe Willems’ books like Don’t Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus are written from a second person point of view.

A: I've never heard of Moe Willems. [Oh my gosh you’re missing out] Well you know I do have a grandbaby so [ you do; I’ll show you my collection. You’ll want to send them] But it also makes me think of kids books that teach how to do things [yes]… helps pull the kids into the experience. 

W: It does, they love it.

A: This second-person point of view also ties in perfectly with our theme.

W: Oh? Really?

A: Yes … using this point-of-view can give a story a unique and powerful perspective.

W: Well … I think it definitely did that. Which is quite contrary to something I read.

A: Which was?

W: That second person is the least interesting to write from.

A: Ummm...Did not feel that at all.

W: Not at all with this piece, but it went on to say that first person makes it easier to engage your readers [okay that makes sense] and third person gives the author a God-like status and that there are no traits like these with second person.

A: No, I suppose not, but there is that element that you can actually become part of the story,[right]  like we mentioned … it’s pretty interesting to me.

W: I agree with you … and to come back to our season’s theme, which is power….

A: I love that we’re doing this...sorry to cut you off...but it has made this season so much easier just to when we're reading to just actually come about…

W: Have a focus…

A: Yeah…

W: I think you can notice it in almost every piece. 

A: Oh absolutely. 

W: These awesome pieces...but in speaking about our second person point of view and that narrator This is a whole different kind of power than our unreliable narrator that we mentioned in our previous episode.

A: Very different … I mean you’re kind of trapped to follow the action with the unreliable narrator, but with our second person narrator/point of view, if you will, you’re part of the action and very much drawn in.

W: That’s a good way to put it. So in our two previous episodes this season, we talked about the power dynamic between children and their parents. Right?

A: Right! But for “Popular Girls,” there isn’t the same power play between these girls and their parents.

W: No, they aren’t trying to have power over one another, the parents are actually a part of the girls’ power.

A: Yes...in sort of a non-present way … the standing they have in the community through their jobs and through their titles, also gives the girls status, and therefore power.

W: Right. Some of the power elements we picked up on this piece …

A: … and we may have missed some, so don’t hesitate to let us know what you might’ve found.

W: Right … we love a different perspective, but for this piece, we found power in money, status, you know as we just said with the parents, beauty, confidence … even if the confidence is more of a facade … and the power of acceptance or security.

A: These girls establish their status and power right up front by first, letting you, the reader, know that we already know who they are. Like you know pretty important people...

W: Oh yes, the power of being known. Didn’t even consider that until you just said it, but yeah, that’s pretty powerful. I noticed right away all the name dropping of the labels.

A: …ooooh their old, posh private school, I mean the backpacks from Sweden... 

W: … bought from the store for cool kids with excess stuff they don’t even use.

A: I mean the excess of stuff is the power.

W: Oh of course … the French bras … Cartier ring … Versace … Armani … their personal art collection … they’ve got money, so they’ve got the power.

A: And they also have the power to accept you...or reject you … 

W: … and some have been rejected, obviously, the girls can’t have power and accept everybody that’s not how that works.

A: That’s right...You know...Popular girls have to be selective. I’m thinking of some of the lines from the piece that really speak to their power … like when they're sitting on the benches and their bookbags are described as a moat.

W: Keeping separation … [right] oh their accepted friends can join them on the benches, kind of, anyway. But they sit outside the bookbag moat.

A: They have been allowed in their presence. That’s nearly the same as being in their circle, right?

W: Nearly, but not. That’s the power. 

A: Ooooh…you're right!

W: You made me think of other instances though… how they walk in a formation, stretch so the theater teacher can see their bras … 

A: … Or how about when they flirt with the principal so they only get a warning about smoking on school property...I’d I’d do that … [Oh my gosh] you know...they’re very aware of the power of their beauty and use it to their benefit. I mean I love the manipulativeness of these girls. Kind of makes you feel at home.

W: Anyway...and speaking of that...the beauty...I don’t…thinking they are always in control of what happens after they use their beauty to get something they want.

A: What do you mean?

W: Well...think about when they go to the club with the older guys that pick them up in the limo.

A: But getting those older guys showed their power.

W: You’re right, it did, but then when one of them, CJ, gets sick in the bathroom, the power starts to shift, or at least the girls notice the power shift. Don't you think?

A: Maybe...When one of the men actually came into the bathroom?

W: That starts it. They are a little thrown when he comes in, I think Ms. Shepard used the word disconcerted.

A: Oh...you’re right, she did … um and that boy helps get CJ up and out to the car...I mean he wants to take her to his place … maybe the label of boy for these obvious men is part of the girls establishing their control and power maybe.

W: I think so … but this boy — man, also unhooks her bra and puts a hand on her breast. Don't you remember the girls remember that CJ thought this particular member of the trio of boys was gross. But they don’t leave with CJ, they let him take her, and I feel like when he took CJ, he took some of the group’s power.

A: Oooh like breaking up their formation. 

W: Exactly...He did and when they are all back at the boys’ apartment, the girls essentially give up the rest of their power.

A: They are uneasy, but even our narrator says no one is leaving … didn’t you say it made you think they wouldn’t concede?

W: I did, ummm but now I think that they just gave up their power, their power to say no. To not do what these men, boys as they like to call them, expect them to do.

A: So I think you could say they did concede then … right? They conceded their power to the boys.

W: I guess … I mean I do wonder if they felt they had the power to say no, to just leave.

A: I wonder if that option even crossed their mind.

W: But I think it did … remember when our narrator says, commands really … no one is leaving.

A: Hmmmm … I can see how that statement could be taken either way. But before that...the girls questioned themselves on whether or not they could actually do this and they were uneasy.

W: Well, sure … but think of the story they can spin back to their circle at school.

A: Which is where it’s imperative they keep their power … no one has to know they relinquished it here, tonight, to strange men.

W: But that’s what they are counting on … I feel. But right now, in the apartment, they are powerless.

A: I couldn’t help but wonder how many times this has happened before with these girls… and how many times it’s happened in real life.

W: I know … and there was kind of a familiarity about the passage as it was written [Definitely] that made you think what their role was going to be.  It’s part of what pulls you into the story, you know this could happen, is happening. And you just hope for a different ending.

A: They used their beauty to get into the club with these boys. And then there was the expectation, to like fulfill some bargain at the end of the night, but not to the full extent of what they were expected to do.

W: Oh but they’ll go back home, they’ll be safe, secure, and come Monday, power will be restored.

A: At least amongst their peers.

W: Well, I think the reality is that the whole power thing is really just an illusion … it can only be maintained within their circle … school, family, peers … these boys, strangers, saw through it, and that’s why the girls faltered.

A: And they didn’t have the power to say no.

W: Well, they have no power … they are being used. I know we could go on, but I want to talk about the fashion and name dropping in this piece.

A: So we looked at this as both a symbol and as a motif because it wasn’t just limited to clothing.

W: No, it was also art, jewelry, bags, bedding, decor … I read a very interesting quote about clothes that I think really sums up our girls.

A: Quote away, my friend.

W: Okay … This is what Alison Lurie, an American Pulitzer Prize winner said in The Language Of Clothes, which is a book I want to read now:

“Long before I am near enough to talk to you on the street, in a meeting, or at a party, you announce your sex, age and class to me through what you are wearing – and very possibly give me important information (or misinformation) as to your occupation, origin, personality, opinions, tastes, sexual desires and current mood.”

A: Huh! I’m thinking of that word misinformation … which is exactly what the girls did with the boys in the limo. Their clothing allowed them to come across as older …I’ve experienced that. Maybe not in a limo... it was actually a deliberate misinformation they presented.

W: Totally agree with that … Do they have limos in Montana? [They do] Okay like the kind they have in North Dakota I’m sure...but how they dress at school … sorry we digress…[with wagon wheels] right exactly and tumble weeds...but you know how they dress around their peers and teachers, that’s a very curated message right [Yeah]. I mean that’s very deliberate, too. And they want to set themselves apart. They want to appear better, untouchable, unattainable.

A: You know they don’t want their cover blown … take for instance, the designer clothing they can’t really afford, well some of them anyway. They get them dry-cleaned so they can be returned. Not worn again, you just can’t have that, but returned, so they can in a sense get new items and repeat the cycle.

W: There is also the Cartier ring … one of the girls warns the others that there are lots of knockoffs on the market and she can tell the difference. Some of the girls respond by sitting on their hands.

A: Ooooh! This just made me think of something. These girls don’t even seem to be equals in their own social circle. [Oh no no no] There’s a bit of a hierarchy of power … I know I’m digressing...but hear me out … Their clothing, and other items, are part of the armor that denotes their position in their social circle.

W: I think you are on to something … because it’s not just to show the world, if you will, it’s to show the other members of even just their group … is that what you are meaning?

A: Yes. And having the group role and their acceptance, is the most important … that is their security.

W: Which is why it was so integral to the story … not a random weave in … hey, look at all my cool expensive stuff.

A: I think their things...their stuff...could almost be another character.

W: Oooh! That’s an interesting way to think about it. You like making nonanimate objects... stuff but I get it. The “stuff” was very, very present. 

A: That’s why it felt more like a motif … but I agree, there’s definite symbology with it, too.

W: Ahhh...Short stories … they can be so packed!

A: That’s why I love them so much! [I know] And speaking of things I love … this faux prosecco...I’m going to call it faux...it just drinks like a prosecco…[were going to have to hide it or sit on it]. But it’s right up there at the top. Are you getting honeydew melon?

W: I am actually. It got stronger as it opened for me.

A: It did. I first noticed it when I would breath out through my nose … aren’t tastings are so fun? The things you pick up on with all your senses.

W: Especially when it's a good tasting. I’m actually getting a little pear, as well.

A: Just a hint though. It’s so refreshing.

W: Agree with you on that. I’ll take a refill if there’s any left.

A: I think we’ve got enough to top off.  

W: I wanted to wrap up this short with the scene at the club at the end of the night.

A: ...Okay go ahead...I’m listening!

W: Let me read it … “We dance until the lights come on, revealing a dance floor of spilled drinks and dropped coat checks, glasses holding triangles of lemon and lime. In a corner an empty condom packet. Atop one of the speakers a lipstick and a compact mirror. On another a naked man with a ponytail is dancing even though the music has stopped. Very nice, we say, frowning and taking the arms of our men.”

A: Oh, so now they are men...I mean earlier they were boys... right?

W: I guess so. 

A: Sorry…

W: Anyway...this paragraph embodies how these girls present themselves to the world. 

A: Oooh!… 

W: I mean think about it, they are in the club, dancing, it’s fun, they are beautiful, the music is good, it’s dark … but then the lights come on and it’s literally a mess. You can see everything that was hidden in the dark.

A: So...are you trying to tell me everything here is like a facáde?

W: Ummm Kind of, yeah … they present this front with the world … their peers, teachers, family … and then when the lights go out at home, they are just little, insecure girls curled up under their Charlie Brown bedspreads....

A: I remember reading that...and watching their floating goldfish Snoopy and Linus...I’m wondering if the girls truly felt loved. I mean, they literally had to tell us … at the end … “We’re loved.”  

W: That’s right … It’s like one of the last lines. We know throughout the story that others wanted to be around them, be in their group, be with them, but it’s literally never said whether anyone actually likes them …they get away with stuff.  I’m not even sure these girls like each other … 

A: I say that because I want to put another notion in your mind as a closing thought.

W: Please do…

A: So, I’ve had this burning question since you mentioned Karen’s short story earlier...you know…the short story “The Mothers?”...I read it when we first came across “Popular Girls”...not sure if you read it yet...I put it in our drive.

W: Her collection of shorts is on my TBR list...

A: Oh good...The fact that the girls collectively said “We’re loved. Even...We’re protected.” I mean I’m wondering...where were the parents...they were mentioned but not present. Right? [yeah] Obviously they had jobs but especially the mothers...where were they in the story? Were they too busy to raise their daughters? Were they too engaged with their sons? If you read Karen’s “The Mothers” you may find your answer…

W: Now I am very intrigued … so you found a bit of connection? Maybe?

A: I did… In that particular short, the mothers were focused only on their sons...I mean they had daughters...not really mentioned...So the burning question is where did this leave the daughters? The daughters here in our short were striving for attention...might have been striving for love, striving for acceptance from others.

W: And you are thinking that maybe it’s because they weren’t feeling the love at home. Makes sense...

A: The stories sort of complement each other if you read them together...anyway...but it was just a thought…

W: A very interesting thought. [kind of a little tangent] It’s books. I’m glad you shared. We’d love it if any of you guys want to share your thoughts. 

A: Please do...either on our discussion or on the bubbly. 

W: You guys are pros at bringing in new angles on our prose. Ha! Ha! Did you like my play on words?

A: Always…Well...great author, great recommendations, pondering questions...my stacketh never endeth...however my glass is bone dry right now.

W: I know we both loved the prose, final thoughts on the prosecco?

A: You know...I really like this. It’s crisp; it’s clean. Rating was over 4!

W: It was high … a 4.1.

A: I’d give it the same. And I’d pair it with a heavier cheese plate ….you know less cantaloupe… a heavier cheese plate would be good...I love the brined olives, basil and tomatoes … probably a dry salami instead of prosciutto … and peppered water crackers instead of the plain ones we had today. 

W: You’ve been thinking about this.

A: You always ask me, so this time I’m ready. What do you think?

W: I would also give it a 4.1, it’s very good, and I think a nice artichoke dip to add to your cheese platter.

A: Oh my God! The spicy artichoke dip from Costco we had at Gramma Sue’s that we can’t get here. It’s so, sooo good!

W: That would be amazing. I can’t keep leaving these tapings so hungry!

A: Why not?

W: Because I stop at the grocery store on the way home to buy more snacks.

A: I’m sorry…[you should be] but you guys can  join us in two weeks, when Wendy gets hungry again, for our discussion on a very new release...Detransition, Baby by Torrey Peters. We’re going to pair it with Ornato Prosecco. 

W: That novel was so, so good! I can’t wait to share a discussion with you on this new powerful voice in literature. 

A: Cheers to our faux Prosecco and the writings of Karen Shepard…

W: Cheers!

***Outro***